Feral Heart

Game & Forum Discussion => Game Discussion => Topic started by: Wizardmymom on March 26, 2014, 08:17:53 pm

Title: Dem Cliches
Post by: Wizardmymom on March 26, 2014, 08:17:53 pm

We all know them.


Those charries who are OP due to some 'magic power' and them being the one to save the world from ___, or
where the charrie is apparently forever alone because a ____ killed their entire pack/clan, and they're the only survivor, or
the ones who killed their entire family just because they could, or

"WE GET IT, COALARA!"
Okokcalmdown.



Anyways, we all know those people.
I honestly see no problem with it, if they have a good reason on why they happened.
If it's just for sob-stories, then no.
I can't think of anything that supports why I'm OK with them sometimes, but there are some.
But there are some.


I found their theme song!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKQ0nPlbwzU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKQ0nPlbwzU)


-Ahem-


Anyways, what do yall think about them?
Are they OK sometimes, are they completely passable, or they CANNOT be allowed to live.

Title: Re: Dem Cliches
Post by: Jango_Fett on March 26, 2014, 08:48:04 pm

Heh, NightCore solves everything

*Ahem*

Yes, there are plenty of cliches to find 'round here.

Some more common then others.

But it is the choice of the person to use a, 'Cliche' for the character.

Some pull it off.  And, more often then no, they don't pull it off as smoothly as one would've hoped.
 

Title: Re: Dem Cliches
Post by: Twin on March 26, 2014, 11:29:06 pm

It'd be nice if people would just be original, -sigh-.
I don't mind the minor things, such as being an orphan or being the poor poor abused kiddie.

However!

Mary Sues are Mary Sues and should be given a nice whackin' on the noggin' for ripping off their favorite anime/movie/book/etc.

Title: Re: Dem Cliches
Post by: FieldsForever on March 26, 2014, 11:51:23 pm

I don't know... they're okay...
Honestly though they're probably just new to role-playing or creating original characters with story lines and stuff.
Plus you know what they say... Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.
Since there is plenty of dem sad-stuck creatures around FeralHeart they problem see each and think how cool their characters are. They will grow out of it... Or into it.

Just a FeralHeart phase some go through.
You went through a phase some time in your life that other people found annoying so guys just shaddup.
(Like Goths, Scenes, Punks, and Hipsters. Let's all argue how UN-original they all are.)

Also your song choice isn't cliche enough.
I would go with Boulevard of Broken Dreams, Leave Out All The Rest, or In The End. Not that I would know much about them moody characters...
lol i lied i hang out with these guys all the time just cuz they are easy to make friends with and ya kno they aint dat bad such orig such taste

@ Cless ; Nah, I don't think so. Let's not perform acts of aggression on our fellow Feral Heartians. They don't mean no harm. Just gotta mold em'.

Title: Re: Dem Cliches
Post by: Wizardmymom on March 27, 2014, 12:44:58 am

Quote from: WarKat on March 26, 2014, 08:48:04 pm

Heh, NightCore solves everything

*Ahem*

Yes, there are plenty of cliches to find 'round here.

Some more common then others.

But it is the choice of the person to use a, 'Cliche' for the character.

Some pull it off.  And, more often then no, they don't pull it off as smoothly as one would've hoped.
 

Yes, yes it does.

Anyways...

I completely agree with that.
People can pull it off, but some can't.
And as Cless said, it's their charrie.

Quote from: FieldsForever on March 26, 2014, 11:51:23 pm

Also your song choice isn't cliche enough.

I'm sorry, I had to laugh at that. XD

Title: Re: Dem Cliches
Post by: unnbrellas on March 27, 2014, 01:08:59 am

 I don't mind cliches, as they can be done very well. The orphaned past is an easy way to explain not having relatives, or maybe even deppressed or villainous character. And for generalization cliches (goth, hipster, punk), I don't notice or mind the to much. I find it more fun to mock these cliches than to follow them!

Title: Re: Dem Cliches
Post by: SoaringAway on March 27, 2014, 01:28:16 am

    I can tolerate having the cliches but from a view of literary devices and how they're played into the plot they're in and towards character development (or regression) and character reasoning/explanation. Surely, these sort of trivial and sad events for characters give a molding that'll follow them but, it does get strange in the FH community when sometimes, they are completely ignored and do not lead to problems for the characters (unless explained otherwise like someone being optimistic or losing family when young and thus, establishing no emotional connection/bond with community or family).

 
A lot of people don't show comprehension as to why these cliches are used and often recycle from very popular and common source material from shows, books, comic books, movies, plays, or poems but add their own 'twist' to them that'll surely dull out what essential life and uniqueness that their creation can bring. That is when these characters are be even painful to watch to read in both the forums and and the game.

Now, some cliches can bring out relativity from other RPers and readers (those not participating in the RP). Unfortunately, there is a reason why it is common to see such things like abuse cases for characters. Some say it can be used to vent out turmoil from the writers, to discuss a point that the author is trying to make (or bring to light an issue) , or the simpler route: that the author just wants the character as they their personality (or attentino they can draw).

But, that's just me putting in my two cents.

Cheers!


@FieldsForever and MochaCocoa
Goths, hipsters, and punks are 'cliques,' not cliches. Cliques are groups that are contrived by a common interest or action that pulls them together (mind you they're labels and are negative and offensive as they generalize human beings).  Character archetypes should be the ones you're going after in talking about cliches. Find some beautiful archetypes over here and you'll find A LOT that'll have to do with characters in this link:

Archetype List (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArchetypalCharacter)

Title: Re: Dem Cliches
Post by: Lady_Alizarin on March 27, 2014, 03:22:38 pm

Quote from: FieldsForever on March 26, 2014, 11:51:23 pm

Just a FeralHeart phase some go through.
You went through a phase some time in your life that other people found annoying so guys just shaddup.
(Like Goths, Scenes, Punks, and Hipsters. Let's all argue how UN-original they all are.)

Quote from: MochaCocoa on March 27, 2014, 01:08:59 am

And for generalization cliches (goth, hipster, punk), I don't notice or mind the to much. I find it more fun to mock these cliches than to follow them!

WRONG! Those are not cliches, those are stereotypes... or cliques, as Soaring Away has said. Those are pretty much labels people put on others based on their style, fashion, tastes, and so on. So you pretty much have the wrong idea here with those. I see characters like that from time to time, especially the goth and emo kind. But I really don't mind them at all. As long as they are following the rules of the game and are doing no harm to anyone, they are fine in my book.

When it comes to the whole cliche business, I can tolerate them as long as the person playing the character doesn't over-emphasize it. Like the orphan characters for example, they sure are common. But most of them like to remind everyone that their parents or family died in a horrible fashion every five minutes, and that they pretty much cry about it through the whole RP. It gets to the point where I think that those people are just dying for attention rather than roleplaying seriously. It's like, "Okay, I get it. Your parents died horribly because of ___. Can we move along now?"

The characters with special powers.... I rarely see them. Maybe if I were to RP in Sky's Rim, I might see them more often. I don't really mind characters like that, as long as they roleplay fairly with others. In other words, no magic moves that will instantly kill others. No powers that will destroy the island. No over-the-top hocus pocus.

Title: Re: Dem Cliches
Post by: FieldsForever on March 28, 2014, 01:30:37 am

I'm going to put a warning this time that I'm not trying to offend ANYONE or purposely label them. This is just my personal opinion and I'm not posing any threat to society with my words. Nor do I wish to do that... because that would be terrible. I may, however, be viewed as ignorant and naive. Now you have been warned.
 
@ Everyone; I didn't mean ANYTHING negative when I said goth, punk, hipster, and whatever it was. When I said let's all argue how UN-original they are I was being SARCASTIC. I just copied words that other people made up and use every day. I don't think of these things just so I can purposely reach out and offend someone. That's not the point. These are very well known "words" and we all can relate to. I also understand how "just words" can offend someone and I'm not trying to offend anyone by saying that either.

Also, tell me where I said they were cliches please. I don't feel like I had wrong ideal at all. I was using example of "phases" people go though. Believe it or not I used to define myself as "Goth" back when all I wore was black. Did I mind being called goth? Uh, duh, no. Because I defined myself as goth. It was what I called myself to fit in. Whether or not I was truly YOUR definition, I don't know, I don't care. It was a phase and I'm over with it. I must have been terrible for negatively labeling myself? I actually encouraged people to call me goth. No matter what, labels are ALWAYS going to be around and people are going to use them being negative AND positive. I'm pretty sure we would all be lying if we didn't look at someone at least once and had a picture in our head of what we thought they were like. There is no such thing as "Not Judging A Book By It's Cover". Wow look, someone wearing a 1D shirt. Obviously in my mind I'm thinking "They must be a fan so they're a Directioner." Some people have negative connotations of the word "Directioner" and some don't. Not my problem. It's not like I spend my life standing on the corner of the street pointing people out and labeling them. I don't do that on internet either, although I openly acknowledge these stereotypes exist. I assume, but I assume IN MY MIND, because, you know, my assumptions could be wrong even if they do have a One Direction shirt and know every LP.
Correction, I did label someone on the internet. Past me. I don't think that counts though since we already talked this over and we're pretty close, if you know what I mean.

@ Coalara-The-Eevee; I'm glad I made you laugh, I try to be lighthearted with my opinions and comments.

 (Are we still on good terms everyone?)

Title: Re: Dem Cliches
Post by: unnbrellas on March 28, 2014, 02:24:46 am

Ok, wow, maybe I'm just overly sensitive (I know I am but oh well), but that reaction could have been nicer. "Cliques" as I have now been told is very similar to cliches and honestly you can't blame me for mixing them up. And to be clear, when i mentioned "I prefer to mock them" it wasn't in a mean way. I don't go around saying "Your stupid as a hipster" or anything- it's more things like Mochas glasses or other small things.

Thought I'd clear that up.

Title: Re: Dem Cliches
Post by: SoaringAway on March 28, 2014, 02:47:26 am

Just wanted to bring up a fairly good point that I read while talking to TangledBowties, a very lovely FHer.

He brings up that all cliches are prominent in all works and it's either a hit or miss as not everything is purely original. Well, certainly, there are things you can make up and WILL be original to your own time and whatnot! Cliches are a molding that people use and have a common tag about them such as the children that lost their parents at a fairly young age. Can we not all agree that we've seen that in many shows or books we have read?

Tangled made the point of cliches if done right and work and I full heartedly agree to this! Mind you, repetition is extremely dull in the linear world of an RP and if seeing it everywhere, well, that sort of ruins the quality of the cliche and just makes it a norm.

---

@FieldsForever:
Everyone is already on a good page and only a minimal point was given to actually verify what was either a misunderstanding or a bad generalization(I admit on my part). I added you as MochaCocoa mentioned it and as did you (and I went on an assumption).

There is no need for further deriding from the original topic as that is disrespectful to the OP and against FeralHeart rules. No one came to accuse you or throw your name into shame. It's not right to write an entire post based off of that.

Title: Re: Dem Cliches
Post by: FieldsForever on March 28, 2014, 03:44:39 am

Now dem cliches. I realized FeralHeart would be less enjoyable without them, even if some of us don't find them enjoyable and humorous. One of my favourites I haven't seen in awhile are Scene characters. Anyone remember them? I kinda wish they would come back because their back stories where truly golden. Also they're pretty fun to hang out with. Just making bogus groups and creating drama. I also like those clan doctors.(usually lionesses... or just cats?) Basically they could use a leaf and a flower alone to fix fatal wounds and broken limbs. Someone drowns? Just call a clan doctor over and they will rub some leaves on the dearly departed and... WALLAH! Good as new. Not even an ounce of water in their lungs. Not sure if that counts as characters with magic powers or power play. But it's all the same. I really just can't believe I haven't seen anything on the forums about these miracle performing clan doctors. Best Feral cliche of the year award would definitely go to them.

I apologize to everyone, especially Coalara-The-Eevee.
I mistakenly got offended. Props and floof to SoaringAway for clearing that up and making a valuable side point this topic lacked.

Title: Re: Dem Cliches
Post by: Eviny on March 29, 2014, 01:01:05 am

My personal opinion is that of a pure no to the majority of cliches if they are not done well. I remember using them along with lots and lots of Mary Sue traits when I was younger, but when I found the list and information about the cliche traits on these forums I began looking for those traits in my characters, and eventually, really despising and avoiding them if only possible. Nowadays I try to make quite literally everything original, but this might also be due to the fact of myself being quite a perfectionist when it comes to creativity.

  If I'd have to say a cliche that offends me the most of the ones I can think of at the moment it would definitely be the "insane" and blind characters.
  As stated in another topic, you should do even some actual research on any disability and disorder or it can become very offending to someone with said disorder or disability. As a person who has quite a serious visual impairment and who is technically half blind I do find the cliche with blind and half blind characters quite uncomfortable most of the time. Why is every character like this needing to be hated ever since they were born? Why did people just straight off abandon or mistreat them because of the disablity no matter what it is? Why can't they simply for once have a fine and happy life? Real animals to my knowledge would not care or they would kill off the weaker one as harsh as it does sound. But if you want to roleplay someone with a disability, for example blindness or some form of it, there are people who actually live just fine with it. I for one was born with a disease that destroyed over half of my vision and even if I was one to experience some negative situations (let's face it, this goes for most people in general) I still have always had a loving family and otherwise happy life to this point. I'm optimistic, I learn from my mistakes, I have friends, I have a home and I live like a human. The only difference being I can't see as well as others.
  I know it is more difficult with wild characters but it doesn't mean they can't be fine and happy with it. Their other senses will take the missing one's part. Being unable to hear or see for example does not mean life is going to be horrible since you can actually live with it. A deaf wolf can have a good eye sight or a great sense of smell, a blind wolf can hear very well and have a more sensitive sense of feeling. The body will find a way to survive.

Anyway, I do still see the pont in why some people do not mind the cliches that much if at all. If the character is not filled with the same traits as mostly everything around them and have actually realistic, interesting and balancing traits to them it is likely a likeable character. My personal strong dislike comes to those characters who are extremely attention begging, filled with drama overall or simply roll in the same puddle of all possible cliches you have seen in your life, and even if it is difficult to define, this does go for personalitites as well. I am sure the majority here has seen the character who had a horrible past and are upset all the time, or the character who is sarcastic, aggressive and generally a bit of a loner type yet they show strong affection to their friends and some others. A better example is a character who is strongly against fghting but is ready to be heroic and fight to the death whenever needed.

  Now, I am aware of the many personalities real people and animals can have, but the most common ones are, in my opinion, getting a bit too common. One thing people who still keep on creating characters with lots of cliche traits forget is how in the reality the past truly effects the personality of someone (not necessarily in a negative way even) and this could in many cases make the character a lot more original and believable over all else.

Example: Let's say you have a semi realistic to realistic wolf character. Yeah, they have the common and quite cliche past; orphaned, abandoned, left behind and whatever else you only can think of related to this. Now, let's say this happened when they were a little pup, a few weeks old, maybe. IF the parents passed away and the pup lived with the rest of the pack they most likely wouldn't remember any of this going on. I may not be a wolf expert, but I do think especially a very young pup wouldn't remember this.
  Now, let's jump forward some time and say our wolf has grown up and had a fine past after this event in their puphood. How would they hold on in a semi realistic setting? I think they would go on just fine. They'd have grown and learned like a normal pup, they'd get past their problems more than likely and be able to grow their own pack just fine. In case they had the more dramatic past and they would get mistreated by others to top the drama, they would, sure, stay away from other wolves or at least be more submissive because that is what they have been taught. They wouldn't go crying about what has happened all day because they most likely wouldn't remember half of it. They would only know they have to behave a certain way.

The example above is only of one kind of these situations and it is quite choppy but I hope it is still understandable. Some balancing and research can truly and honestly help more than just a couple words can describe. Creating a cliche character is easily looked down upon and some people can find it annoying if someone in the roleplay seeks for attention the entire time or is shining with their powers and how special they are.

  Then again, people are allowed to do as they wish and other people can actually even learn from them. What I do is looking for these characters, screenshotting them and saving them in specific folders and later on seeing what is overused and what is not too common. Some of the cliches and Mary Sues/Gary Stus make me and my companion cringe quite the bit, but some are hilarious. It is the question of taste, some people like cliches and some don't, but you can always learn from other people' mistakes, if it is fine to call them as such.

(I know this is getting way too long of a rant, but there is one more thing I wish to include)
  A tip I have found working well so far is to not give your characters traits out of nowhere, if possible let them decide what they are like, what their strenghts are, what weaknesses they have and what their past was like. Using them in a roleplay is an extremely good way of developing them and the key to the development is to not force them to stay the same. Give them room, give them something to do, others to communicate with, activity and different events. They WILL develope themselves if you give them the possibility to do so and this way you can actually give them their own "existence" in your mind, something most writers as well use as their advantage.

This is all for now, I apologize for the long rant.