Author Topic: To clear a few things up..  (Read 12153 times)

Offline DylanCheetah

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Re: To clear a few things up..
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2020, 05:19:40 am »
It isn't easy for someone to admit when they have made a mistake. And the bigger the mistake, the harder it is. It's even harder when said mistake warrants a public apology. And sure, an apology doesn't just magically take away the whatever fallout the mistake caused. However, everyone makes mistakes. And it is times like this when we must ask ourselves "When I make a mistake, do I really want people to hold it against me for the rest of my life?" I have my doubts that any of you would like that. Which is exactly why we should not hold Sura's mistakes against her either.

And furthermore, I believe that the only sort of person who deserves to be asked to "step down" is one who does not apologize for their mistakes and try to fix what was caused by their mistake.

On a side note, I suppose we could all start following one another around the forum to remind them of every little mistake they make. But then wouldn't things get pretty chaotic around here as a result?

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Re: To clear a few things up..
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2020, 05:37:58 am »
When working in a professional environment (although FH Staff Team environment isn't exactly the top tier of professional, but STILL professional) people are going to look up to you and pinpoint just about every step you take, regardless of whether or not it is a mistake.
No one can control what's held against them Dylan, that's not how life works. Otherwise if it were, the word 'hate' would co-exist. As would 'dislike' and 'distaste', crimes could be committed without anything done to prevent, because oh yeah... in the ideal world, no one wants to be hated for their decisions.
But working in a professional environment means we're much more likely to hold grudges. It's unavoidable. There is more emotional dependency on that person's shoulders coming from the people "beneath" them. So telling people to not hold a grudge is not a reasonable response, but that's just imo. If you do something wrong, you're going to be held accountable for those actions long-term and sorry will not always be the only thing required for people to move forward.

I don't get where your idea has come from to suddenly pull petty moves when creating such a scenario has 0 relation to what's actually going on, but whatever. You do you, but that doesn't justify any of what happened - from BOTH sides.
It sounds like you don't want things to be held against the Staff but would happily hold something against the community. Double standards, but maybe I'm misreading.

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Offline LadySigyn

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Re: To clear a few things up..
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2020, 06:04:11 am »
Sura, I've watched you grow ever since the day we met before you became staff. From the start you were kind, hardworking, loyal and a wonderful soul to be around. Same thing with Ressy. You've both been more-than eligible additions to the staff team from the beginning, and I wouldn't ever doubt your intentions. You've never given me a reason to doubt them, nor has my positive opinion on you two changed in the past 8 years. You and your work are incredibly underappreciated often because people can't see what you do behind the scenes, and all the little things that get done. I trust you, and I trust the rest of the team. We make mistakes, we're human. I admire you for your maturity in all of this, because although others see your actions as unjustified, I'm pretty neutral about it. Either way, apologies were given and I see no reason for things to be continued by either party.

Thank you for trying your hardest to make this a safe and positive place for us, staffers. I continously appreciate you and everything you do for the community. <3


Offline Hakumi

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Re: To clear a few things up..
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2020, 06:34:47 am »
In the end, I guess something is better than nothing.
While I do appreciate you guys coming forward about this matter, It still doesn't sit well with me, nor really proves anything in regards to your behaviours.

'FeralHeart simply does not want to be held responsible if a user doesn't get help.'
But technically you won't..? Unless someone here is going to actively try and give professional help when they themselves aren't a professional then I can kinda see what you guys' were trying to do... However, that's still not a good enough reason.
These hotlines, were used as a reference or some sort of guidance for those that are truly seeking help.. In no shape nor form would FH be held accountable for just trying point users in a direction if they were lost and seeking some answers..
If anything, it shows how much the community truly cares about their members' wellbeing.. and as pointed out, the fact that it took this long before its removal is questionable at best..



As for the apology made by Sura...
For starters, it's a very respectable and brave thing for you to do. Owning up to your mistakes and reversing the actions you had taken on these fellow members.. You didn't have to do it, period, but the fact that you did anyways should be noted.. and for that, I have some respect for you. But, it still wounded the trust and respect that a lot of members had for you.
As a Leader in another community I run ( albeit, differently operated in a sense ), if I had done what you did a few days back? I would've been removed from the team no questions asked or at least put on probation.. and truthfully, I think that should be done starting from here on out.


You revealed very sensitive information to the public.

You were very hostile and accusatory towards the members in questioned.

You let your emotions get the best of you and carried out in an action that wasn't even properly discussed nor handled with the rest of your team.

You basically acted alone.

You were entrusted with a very powerful role and with it, great power to do as you pleased... and you abused it.

Now, members are having strong, negative emotions when it comes to Staff and for the most part, they have every right to feel the way they do. Their feelings are valid.
When I first started out, I was naturally intimidated by Staff. Always worried about stepping on any toes or just being a pest for them just for swinging by and saying Hi.. But soon, as I started to realize that they're just another person behind the screens, who aren't so uptight.. I started to relax and even come to respect them.
And even now as I'm typing this out, I'm anxious and even worried that something in my post will get censored because I said something that someone on the team didn't like. But you know what? That's perfectly fine. We are allowed to agree to disagree and speak up.

So, while I'm grateful for all the team has done over the years whether it be for the community, themselves or even this game.. I won't just simply 'move past this'. Personally, and again this is just my opinion... but if Sura is going to remain on the team, they should be demoted on even on probation and actually prove how serious they are with their willing to renew themselves. What they did crossed so many lines and it's not right. A simple Sorry isn't going to cut it for me.. It may for some others but not for me..

I really do want to see this game thrive and be represented in a positive way with a welcoming Staff and Members.. but if actions like these.. caused by members with this much power gets treated this lightly and their punishments this tamed..?
I really don't see a bright and welcoming outlook for the future of this place.. and it breaks me even typing that out.
So for now, I can only hope and continue to find the courage to raise my voice when it matters the most..

Again, Thank you for at the very least addressing this..

Keep on traveling across this road called 'Life.'

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Offline DarkLustyHumor

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Re: To clear a few things up..
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2020, 06:39:45 am »
In the end, I guess something is better than nothing.
While I do appreciate you guys coming forward about this matter, It still doesn't sit well with me, nor really proves anything in regards to your behaviours.

'FeralHeart simply does not want to be held responsible if a user doesn't get help.'
But technically you won't..? Unless someone here is going to actively try and give professional help when they themselves aren't a professional then I can kinda see what you guys' were trying to do... However, that's still not a good enough reason.
These hotlines, were used as a reference or some sort of guidance for those that are truly seeking help.. In no shape nor form would FH be held accountable for just trying point users in a direction if they were lost and seeking some answers..
If anything, it shows how much the community truly cares about their members' wellbeing.. and as pointed out, the fact that it took this long before its removal is questionable at best..



As for the apology made by Sura...
For starters, it's a very respectable and brave thing for you to do. Owning up to your mistakes and reversing the actions you had taken on these fellow members.. You didn't have to do it, period, but the fact that you did anyways should be noted.. and for that, I have some respect for you. But, it still wounded the trust and respect that a lot of members had for you.
As a Leader in another community I run ( albeit, differently operated in a sense ), if I had done what you did a few days back? I would've been removed from the team no questions asked or at least put on probation.. and truthfully, I think that should be done starting from here on out.


You revealed very sensitive information to the public.

You were very hostile and accusatory towards the members in questioned.

You let your emotions get the best of you and carried out in an action that wasn't even properly discussed nor handled with the rest of your team.

You basically acted alone.

You were entrusted with a very powerful role and with it, great power to do as you pleased... and you abused it.

Now, members are having strong, negative emotions when it comes to Staff and for the most part, they have every right to feel the way they do. Their feelings are valid.
When I first started out, I was naturally intimidated by Staff. Always worried about stepping on any toes or just being a pest for them just for swinging by and saying Hi.. But soon, as I started to realize that they're just another person behind the screens, who aren't so uptight.. I started to relax and even come to respect them.
And even now as I'm typing this out, I'm anxious and even worried that something in my post will get censored because I said something that someone on the team didn't like. But you know what? That's perfectly fine. We are allowed to agree to disagree and speak up.

So, while I'm grateful for all the team has done over the years whether it be for the community, themselves or even this game.. I won't just simply 'move past this'. Personally, and again this is just my opinion... but if Sura is going to remain on the team, they should be demoted on even on probation and actually prove how serious they are with their willing to renew themselves. What they did crossed so many lines and it's not right. A simple Sorry isn't going to cut it for me.. It may for some others but not for me..

I really do want to see this game thrive and be represented in a positive way with a welcoming Staff and Members.. but if actions like these.. caused by members with this much power gets treated this lightly and their punishments this tamed..?
I really don't see a bright and welcoming outlook for the future of this place.. and it breaks me even typing that out.
So for now, I can only hope and continue to find the courage to raise my voice when it matters the most..

Again, Thank you for at the very least addressing this..
So much, this. This spells out exactly how I feel about this situation.

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Re: To clear a few things up..
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2020, 08:11:04 am »
GDRP Law/Deleting accounts
To set records straight regarding the apparent breach of the GDPR law.
Once a user is banned, we have the right to refuse the said account to be deleted.
This is because we are actively using that information to uphold the ban.
Once the ban ceases, the user is more than welcome to delete their account.

That is completely false.
According to GDPR you can only keep data after a deletion request in the following cases:

"-the personal data your company/organisation  holds is needed to exercise the right of freedom of expression;
-there is a legal obligation to keep that data;
-for reasons of public interest (for example public health, scientific, statistical or historical research purposes)"

Actively using the data to uphold a ban is not on that list as you can see.

Oh also..
"-If your company/organisation processed data unlawfully it must delete it. In the case of an individual, data collected when they were still a minor must be deleted."

Guess what? Most of the users in question WERE MINORS when the data was collected so you should have removed it without a question.

Learn more: https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/rules-business-and-organisations/dealing-citizens/do-we-always-have-delete-personal-data-if-person-asks_en

Next time you post something about laws, please research it first.


Offline Dark_heart

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Re: To clear a few things up..
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2020, 11:43:19 am »
I'm so glad and proud of you, Sura. Everyone makes mistakes. You understand your mistake. We can forgive you long non-responding. As some people said, they haven't any piece of trust for you and… honestly understand that. Whole this situation was big tension, for everyone. So thanks for unbanning people.

However.

I do not agree with decision about removing helpine thread. When I was reading rules first time, you didn't know how much it warmed my heart. It's my opinion and it's fine If you don't agree, however, I think this thread would look good and professional for guests.

And just gonna say: reading this thread has helped me a lot.
On new account Aiiokia

Offline Bloo.

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Re: To clear a few things up..
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2020, 04:28:59 pm »
You all know that I advocate for things returning to normal and for everyone to equally benefit from where we go from here. I love this community, always have and always will, however I feel the need to further explain the GDPR policy and how it applies here in terms of data erasure. I am doing this in a professional capacity and in no way intend for this to be an attack or rebuttal towards any individual or group of individuals.



The GDPR, or General Data Protection Regulation, is a set of laws enforced by the EU regarding the, as obvious, protection of your personal data.
The first, important thing to note here, is that the FH game and servers are run out of the UK, which seceded from the EU. Now, that does not mean the GDPR laws are null, it just means they are exercised slightly differently and are formally recognized as the Data Protection Act (2018) in the United Kingdom.
I only mention this so that we can reference the correct policies in regards to this particular game as they are written and enforced differently in some areas.

The main policy I would like to touch down on is the Right to Erasure, that is the right to request your personal data be erased, both up front as well as the termination of any back-ups of that data. Please see below image:
-

-
You'll note that the first line mentions "GDPR", please remember that the GDPR does scope all of pan-European countries, it is the "umbrella" policy while the Data Protection Act details the UK's version of that policy.

In regards to the image above, you could argue that the first two bullet points alone are grounds enough to have your account deleted, and they are. If you are a member with no set ban on your account, you have every right to delete your account or have the FH staff delete it for you. Now this is where things seem to get a bit sticky. Please see below image:
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-
In the image above, we are going to focus on the third bullet point. When FH staff sets a ban on an account, it can either be through username alone, or through IP address. In a professional sense and when correctly administered, the function of a ban is to prevent users who have broken game and/or forum rules from continuing their behavior and to act as a deterrent from continuing such behavior in the future. Putting aside the fact that bans were recently carried out in an unjustified manner, justified bans are meant to protect the community and ban length depends entirely on the fault committed. 

We, as staff, do have access to user's IP address, but only the ones linked to the account they registered with. We do not have access to anything more than your IP address and your email, both of which are used strictly for administrative purposes. We have your email so we can contact you if necessary, as well as if we need to find a user that may have changed their username or lost an account. We can access your IP address so we can ensure that bans placed on an account are not being evaded and so that we can make sure that other accounts connected to that banned account are locked down as well. The reason we hold the right to refuse a data erasure on a banned account is because, in erasing that account's data, we lose the IP address. This allows the user to create a new account and go on breaking rules. Simply said, we reserve the right to hold onto the data of a banned account as part of our duties as FH staff members to prevent people from harming the community in any capacity, ergo, the performance of a task carried out in the public interest.

FH staff never use IP addresses or emails associated with your accounts maliciously. When LordSuragaha posted the screenshot of a user's IP log, all traces of an IP address were blacked out. While it was in bad taste to share the screenshot to begin with, there was absolutely no intent of doxxing.
On that note, I feel it's also important to highlight one of the original rules that users agree to when they register for the game.
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If you are having trouble reading the image above, you can find the rule Here. I bring up this rule so that users are reminded that any account associated with one IP address are responsible for any other accounts registered with that IP address. If you and your sibling share a computer and your sibling gets banned, if the ban was done by IP, you are also banned. It's important to inform friends and family members of this rule so nobody is caught unaware and confused.



As far as this policy goes in regards to minors, the GDPR and the Data Protection Act use the term "child" and define this as an individual who is 13 years or younger. The same policies as stated above apply to children as well, though in a more relevant capacity as children may not always be aware of the risks when registering their data online. While this game is aimed at people of all ages, it's important to undertake certain precautions in order to protect the younger users. I, personally, will be working towards having a system implemented to better ensure that our younger users will be recorded so that data erasure isn't an issue in the future. However, as a system like that doesn't currently exist (and if you have a game where younger users may register, I would highly suggest you do this as soon as possible), there is no way to prove which users are or were 13 years or younger when they registered an account here.

I noticed as well that some users had mentioned COPPA law and the lack of it here at FH. While COPPA is a US law, it does apply to foreign hosted servers and websites if the host knowingly collects personal data from children in the US. This is something we will be looking into as it's very important to us that our younger users are safe.



If anyone has any questions or concerns regarding GDPR or the DPA, please contact me via PM. This is a news thread and arguments weren't meant to be had here.
 
« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 05:50:28 pm by Bloo. »


You are amazing <3

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Re: To clear a few things up..
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2020, 05:28:45 pm »
"for the performance of a task carried out in the public interest or in the exercise of official authority" does not apply here. Deleting an account will not affect the public interest in any ways and the FeralHeart staff is not an official authority.

The assumption of only the UK version of GDPR applying is wrong in the first place, GDPR applies to all websites and applications which operate and have users from the EU.

The same is true to COPPA aswell. The law might only exist in the US, but FeralHeart actively operates and accepts users from the US so it applies to the game as well.

If you really want to escape all privacy laws you should block the whole US and EU. Then neither of the laws would apply.. That's a lie because the UK's version of GDPR is still there.

Oh and.. There is the fact that FH's privacy policy and terms of service is a huge mess.. And it doesn't comply by either privacy laws.
Second oh.. Where is the FH only accepts usere over the age of 13? The game letting users under 13 into the game introduces some huge privacy requirements..... However FH fails to meet those as well.


Months ago Raz told me he wont accept donations for legal reasons.. But you guys won't solve actually important legal problems, like fixing your PP and ToS?
I just want the users to be safe here but I see absolutely nothing done for that safety.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 05:31:17 pm by xSpirit »

Offline Bloo.

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Re: To clear a few things up..
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2020, 05:33:50 pm »
"for the performance of a task carried out in the public interest or in the exercise of official authority" does not apply here. Deleting an account will not affect the public interest in any ways and the FeralHeart staff is not an official authority.

The assumption of only the UK version of GDPR applying is wrong in the first place, GDPR applies to all websites and applications which operate and have users from the EU.

The same is true to COPPA aswell. The law might only exist in the US, but since FeralHeart actively operates and accept s users from the US so it applies to FH as well.

If you really want to escape all privacy laws you should block the whole US and EU. Then neither of the laws would apply.. That's a lie because the UK's version of GDPR is still there.

Oh and.. There is the fact that FH's privacy policy and terms of service is a huge mess.. And it doesn't comply by either privacy laws.
Second oh.. Where is the FH only accepts usere over the age of 13? The game letting users under 13 into the game introduces some huge privacy requirements..... However FH fails to meet those as well.

I think you may have missed some of what I'd said, or misinterpreted it. You're welcome to PM me concerning it and I'd be happy to discuss with you what you've pointed out here and revise my post accordingly. But as I'd said at the bottom of my post, this isn't a thread of argument or "back and forth" so that's where I'll leave it.

Note: I've looked into the COPPA laws and regulations and have revised my post as needed. I had originally used a couple sources for my statement regarding COPPA but they turned out to be misleading after investigating a little further into some more notable sources. I do apologize for the misinformation on my part.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2020, 05:52:25 pm by Bloo. »


You are amazing <3