Author Topic: An Average of 100~ Players  (Read 4583 times)

Cilantro

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An Average of 100~ Players
« on: July 07, 2020, 07:17:30 pm »
Hey, I feel I should throw my hat into the ring for ideas to bring activity up. So.

Right now we are averaging about 100 players a day. Presumably the same players in the grounds. This is not good. This is a sign the game is on life support. We cannot deny this any longer, I'm sorry.

I am trying to remain positive in this thread and not giving back lash toward anyone. I will ask for those to move to PMs if arguments occur.
________

Now, my suggestions.

1. Better Communication/Compromise.
We all know there are some issues with communication. From Player to Player, Player to Staff, Player to MOTS, etc.. We do not need different parties of people in this game. It makes the community look bad to new players and those coming back through nostalgia. No one wants to join a drama filled game. This is why no new players are staying. Teens and preteens joining the game have no context of the mess, and most likely do not want to deal with said mess.

The fix: Give information about big updates. Hype people up to stay! Don't just throw parties every year and dance around in game. Parties are not fixing the issue. Upgrades! Hype people up for new things. Secrets will not accomplish this.
You can still have secrets for certain updates. See my examples.

Examples for secrets: new models, some game upgrades (see block glitch and activities tab), new staff, etc.
Examples for Hype: Parties, Big projects you can take us along the way with (see community maps and dev stuff), new maps, MOTS, etc.

I'd look at the game Flight Rising for better examples than mine in updates.

2. Better Moderation.
This is not meant to degrade current staff by any means necessary. We as a player base just want better and fair moderation. I've known several people who have been in trouble for things they A. Didn't do, B. Miss-typed in the wrong chat, or C. Didn't know you couldn't say. We've all read the rules. We've seen them in game despite the text being ridiculously small. I got talked to for having a certain acronym in my bio when many others have said worse acronyms in Local.

We also need more activity from staff. We understand you are busy. But if you are too busy to moderate, why are you a moderator? Again going to repeat this; This is not meant to degrade current staff by any means necessary. I am just trying to help with things.

As for punishments. Give a public list of what action gets a what consequence. A great example of this kind of list is from a site called Art Fight. They have a maturity rating system that works a lot like this list. See this link for more info. Warning: Cartoon blood and more.

Example From Art Fight.


My Example for FH

Now, any other suggestions comments and concerns? I'd love to hear y'alls ideas!

Offline Silvestria

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Re: An Average of 100~ Players
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2020, 07:26:53 pm »
In response to the transparency issue, I'll just quote Lord Suragaha since she has already spoken multiple times about this.

It’s appreciated that you took the time to think out this idea, write it, and present it to us Cal. The only issue here is that this just isn’t how Raz works. If it was just staff, community, and MOTS discussing things to come to a decision it would get done without the need for all this process just to push out to Raz. With the current system this would just make the process even longer, all for Raz to likely just deny whatever we set up. We’ve done this before with things like polls, petitions, and contracts and it’s just not how he works. You can see how things like the mass bring back the old maps or general chat stuff goes, and that’s a desire directly expressed by the community.

While it’s Raz’s server all final say on to what gets implemented and put in is up to him: if he wants it, how he wants it, and when he wants or is able to put it in. We can all go about taking time with this suggestion of yours only to finally present it to him and to simply get the same response we always get just with more steps in between. Ideally all we staff would need is the community to say what they want, staff then to discuss it and get to work while giving them constant updates so they can check in along the process with us. In a simpler world this is how we’d like it to work. What keeps certain things from happening isn’t the process of how staff is doing it or what they want but it’s because it comes back down to Raz after it’s gone through all of us. We’ve directly linked him threads and things the community has asked for but again it’s down to his response and desire to make those changes to his server if it happens or not. The way the requests are presented or formatted mean nothing if it’s just not something he wants or thinks is best.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with your idea or suggestion, I think it’s well organized and makes sense but not for this situation. I’m sorry <3 We really do appreciate you trying to assist us in coming up with a workable solution though.

It just kind of comes back to things I’ve said before. Raz has a vision of what he wants us (community & staff) to do with the game (whether he expresses that as clearly as we like or not). Even when he suggests that he wants to be the background man he still has a heavy influence and final decision over things, otherwise staff would have already fixed and implemented the things you’ve asked for by now. It’s not in our control. We are simply working for him and his server. Because this is his server after a while staff & community will have to accept that we have to respect the way he does or wants things done even if we don’t agree with them. If we want anything to be done we just have to work with Raz how he works. This doesn’t mean that there will not be updates but what it does mean is that it may not be as soon as you want them, how you want them always, or as transparent of a process. If Raz wants us to do it his way it’s what we have to do to be able to get anything done for you.

I can’t stress enough to you all that we do value your input though and we don’t want you to feel discouraged, it can be just as frustrating for us sometimes.

As for staff activity, I have seen some staff on more frequently. Additionally, I feel like a chat filter for swears would be helpful, especially during times where there might not be any staff online to catch it.

Offline Dark_heart

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Re: An Average of 100~ Players
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2020, 07:27:08 pm »
Had same idea with hype and secret, heh. Also dramas are probably worst thing in this game. Had small chit-chat with my friend, agree. This game is FILLED of drama. Probably half of posts on forum have ended with drama.

About staff... well, I think modering forum, updates, etc... Raz. Not gonna kick or try to annoy anyone, but... look:

There’s always stuff going on even if it’s just discussion and or planning before actual tangible work. We’re always seeking out people with the right skills and interest to assist along with things as well. The thing is this is Razmirz’s server that he hosts, and what, how, and when things happen with the game is up to him. This includes if he wants staff to disclose information about a patch/update or not. I see folks stating staff just like to keep things a surprise & secret all the time even though they want more transparency. That’s because that’s not up to staff. We’d honestly love to discuss more of the inside business with you but if that’s not how Raz wants it we have to respect his wishes. So I’m sorry I can’t give you any specifics. Rest assured that stuff is happening, though we don’t even know how soon or if and what will happen.

But mostly agree c:
On new account Aiiokia

Cilantro

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Re: An Average of 100~ Players
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2020, 10:28:02 pm »
Bump

Cilantro

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Re: An Average of 100~ Players
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2020, 10:32:12 pm »
In response to the transparency issue, I'll just quote Lord Suragaha since she has already spoken multiple times about this.

It’s appreciated that you took the time to think out this idea, write it, and present it to us Cal. The only issue here is that this just isn’t how Raz works. If it was just staff, community, and MOTS discussing things to come to a decision it would get done without the need for all this process just to push out to Raz. With the current system this would just make the process even longer, all for Raz to likely just deny whatever we set up. We’ve done this before with things like polls, petitions, and contracts and it’s just not how he works. You can see how things like the mass bring back the old maps or general chat stuff goes, and that’s a desire directly expressed by the community.

While it’s Raz’s server all final say on to what gets implemented and put in is up to him: if he wants it, how he wants it, and when he wants or is able to put it in. We can all go about taking time with this suggestion of yours only to finally present it to him and to simply get the same response we always get just with more steps in between. Ideally all we staff would need is the community to say what they want, staff then to discuss it and get to work while giving them constant updates so they can check in along the process with us. In a simpler world this is how we’d like it to work. What keeps certain things from happening isn’t the process of how staff is doing it or what they want but it’s because it comes back down to Raz after it’s gone through all of us. We’ve directly linked him threads and things the community has asked for but again it’s down to his response and desire to make those changes to his server if it happens or not. The way the requests are presented or formatted mean nothing if it’s just not something he wants or thinks is best.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with your idea or suggestion, I think it’s well organized and makes sense but not for this situation. I’m sorry <3 We really do appreciate you trying to assist us in coming up with a workable solution though.

It just kind of comes back to things I’ve said before. Raz has a vision of what he wants us (community & staff) to do with the game (whether he expresses that as clearly as we like or not). Even when he suggests that he wants to be the background man he still has a heavy influence and final decision over things, otherwise staff would have already fixed and implemented the things you’ve asked for by now. It’s not in our control. We are simply working for him and his server. Because this is his server after a while staff & community will have to accept that we have to respect the way he does or wants things done even if we don’t agree with them. If we want anything to be done we just have to work with Raz how he works. This doesn’t mean that there will not be updates but what it does mean is that it may not be as soon as you want them, how you want them always, or as transparent of a process. If Raz wants us to do it his way it’s what we have to do to be able to get anything done for you.

I can’t stress enough to you all that we do value your input though and we don’t want you to feel discouraged, it can be just as frustrating for us sometimes.

As for staff activity, I have seen some staff on more frequently. Additionally, I feel like a chat filter for swears would be helpful, especially during times where there might not be any staff online to catch it.

Okay real reply now. If Raz cannot and/or will not allow this then maybe its time to leave this game? My suggestions are something every game should have already. I want this game to thrive I really do.

But if Raz is unwilling then maybe we need to give up and leave. I'm sorry.

Offline Silvestria

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Re: An Average of 100~ Players
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2020, 01:20:41 am »
I don't think one has to leave. Things may not be as they used to be, but we can still enjoy what we have now. There are still updates being worked on and as long as people continue to play, I have faith in this game.

Offline Oddonelynx

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Re: An Average of 100~ Players
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2020, 01:20:58 am »
I agree with most of this (except the leave part) maybe even get it running on a new version of ogre! Because it's been running on an outdated version, the game's been crashing and having trouble on newer computers. (Like mine!)

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SpicyDirt

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Re: An Average of 100~ Players
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2020, 01:57:09 am »
I can't say much as I am only in training, but I'd at least like to throw my own views and such into here.

1. Better Communication/Compromise.
We all know there are some issues with communication. From Player to Player, Player to Staff, Player to MOTS, etc.. We do not need different parties of people in this game. It makes the community look bad to new players and those coming back through nostalgia. No one wants to join a drama filled game. This is why no new players are staying. Teens and preteens joining the game have no context of the mess, and most likely do not want to deal with said mess.

The fix: Give information about big updates. Hype people up to stay! Don't just throw parties every year and dance around in game. Parties are not fixing the issue. Upgrades! Hype people up for new things. Secrets will not accomplish this.
You can still have secrets for certain updates. See my examples.

Examples for secrets: new models, some game upgrades (see block glitch and activities tab), new staff, etc.
Examples for Hype: Parties, Big projects you can take us along the way with (see community maps and dev stuff), new maps, MOTS, etc.

I'd look at the game Flight Rising for better examples than mine in updates.

So this is something that actually comes up quite a bit ~ more communication between community and staff. This has especially come up quite recently and has been on a lot of the staff member's minds. We actually are listening, as stated quite a few times, and are trying to communicate more. When it comes to the update, we cannot say anything but that in all honesty is not quite the staff to blame on that one. Lord Sura said not long ago that this game is run by Raz, which means that he has the ultimate say in what the staff can give out to the community and what they cannot. That being said, I know that the argument will come up about just going and doing so anyways or just leaving the staff, but we want to respect Raz's wishes and we also don't want to leave the game that we love so dearly.

It is our goal to make sure that we have everything that you guys want, and we do apologize that we can't show you more of what is happening behind the scenes. But we are also trying to hype for the update while also respecting Raz and his wishes. Take a look at the podium winner! That is actually going to be implemented into the game with the upcoming update! I want to say this as a community member and not a staff member: I absolutely love to see this in particular because it is the way of showing that the staff are using the community. Also, take a look at the submission boards - another great way to get community input on all of the stuff to be updated in the game.

All-in-all, the staff are trying to work on the communication between community and staff, and the best thing that we can do in the meantime is to be patient (on both sides) and keep giving us ideas. While we can't say anything about the update, I can say that community input is going to be a heavy influence!

2. Better Moderation.
This is not meant to degrade current staff by any means necessary. We as a player base just want better and fair moderation. I've known several people who have been in trouble for things they A. Didn't do, B. Miss-typed in the wrong chat, or C. Didn't know you couldn't say. We've all read the rules. We've seen them in game despite the text being ridiculously small. I got talked to for having a certain acronym in my bio when many others have said worse acronyms in Local.

We also need more activity from staff. We understand you are busy. But if you are too busy to moderate, why are you a moderator? Again going to repeat this; This is not meant to degrade current staff by any means necessary. I am just trying to help with things.

As for punishments. Give a public list of what action gets a what consequence. [Removed this from the quote for space, huehuehue]

This is actually another thing that we see popping up quite often ~ more descriptions of the rules along with what could be the punishment attached onto it. I can't talk about bans specifically cuz you know... rules and such, but this honestly would be something nice to give the community members more of a peace of mind.

As for the activity of the staff, that has been taken into consideration and actually has been on the rise recently. To be fair, this does depend on time zones and such, but a lot more staff members are making themselves available in the game. Also, sometimes a staff member will be on and the other people in the game won't notice them. Always watching... huehuehue. Many staff members have jobs, school, and other aspects of life which keep them from being on the game all the time, but they are trying harder to be on the game a lot more often.



All of this being said I'd like to add in a bit. The staff members are listening to the community and are trying their hardest to keep things calm. While it may be difficult at some times, you'll never see any of the current staff members giving up on this community. They are trying their hardest to keep the community happy while also having to play the "mean parent" when they don't actually have control over some things. Thank you Cilantro for posting this ~ it does help us in finding ways to improve within our boundaries.

Offline Chipz

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Re: An Average of 100~ Players
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2020, 10:09:12 am »
I can't speak about most of this because most of it I understand the staff's view but moderation and such could defiantly be better.

I personally think the punishments need to be fixed and used more professionally, I know many users who have left because of the harsh and sudden way they are applied to them and more often their friends. There needs to be a defined system that won't make the mods look harsh especially to such a small community. Warnings are important, communication between staff is important. I have made suggestions about the matter in the past but my thread was deleted.

My tiny experience as a mod in training on another game has taught me a lot and I'll be more then happy to share my thoughts if they will be listened to.

Cilantro

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Re: An Average of 100~ Players
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2020, 03:25:35 pm »
I can't say much as I am only in training, but I'd at least like to throw my own views and such into here.

[Removed for Space.]

So this is something that actually comes up quite a bit ~ more communication between community and staff. This has especially come up quite recently and has been on a lot of the staff member's minds. We actually are listening, as stated quite a few times, and are trying to communicate more. When it comes to the update, we cannot say anything but that in all honesty is not quite the staff to blame on that one. Lord Sura said not long ago that this game is run by Raz, which means that he has the ultimate say in what the staff can give out to the community and what they cannot. That being said, I know that the argument will come up about just going and doing so anyways or just leaving the staff, but we want to respect Raz's wishes and we also don't want to leave the game that we love so dearly.

It is our goal to make sure that we have everything that you guys want, and we do apologize that we can't show you more of what is happening behind the scenes. But we are also trying to hype for the update while also respecting Raz and his wishes. Take a look at the podium winner! That is actually going to be implemented into the game with the upcoming update! I want to say this as a community member and not a staff member: I absolutely love to see this in particular because it is the way of showing that the staff are using the community. Also, take a look at the submission boards - another great way to get community input on all of the stuff to be updated in the game.

All-in-all, the staff are trying to work on the communication between community and staff, and the best thing that we can do in the meantime is to be patient (on both sides) and keep giving us ideas. While we can't say anything about the update, I can say that community input is going to be a heavy influence!

[Removed for Space.]

This is actually another thing that we see popping up quite often ~ more descriptions of the rules along with what could be the punishment attached onto it. I can't talk about bans specifically cuz you know... rules and such, but this honestly would be something nice to give the community members more of a peace of mind.

As for the activity of the staff, that has been taken into consideration and actually has been on the rise recently. To be fair, this does depend on time zones and such, but a lot more staff members are making themselves available in the game. Also, sometimes a staff member will be on and the other people in the game won't notice them. Always watching... huehuehue. Many staff members have jobs, school, and other aspects of life which keep them from being on the game all the time, but they are trying harder to be on the game a lot more often.



All of this being said I'd like to add in a bit. The staff members are listening to the community and are trying their hardest to keep things calm. While it may be difficult at some times, you'll never see any of the current staff members giving up on this community. They are trying their hardest to keep the community happy while also having to play the "mean parent" when they don't actually have control over some things. Thank you Cilantro for posting this ~ it does help us in finding ways to improve within our boundaries.

Thank you so much for your response. I apologize for my leaving comment earlier.

Now! Considering your comments. I've heard about the new update, and I am a little frustrated about it. I won't give explicit details on who told me what and details about said update. I understand where y'all are coming from though with it. I'd be willing to give my input within PMs if you'd want?

As for activity of staff, I do agree that the moderators have been on more. I was just stating my suggestions for those who cannot be on actively because of said business. I understand Hiatus, though they can only be on it for so long. The reason why I suggest this is to gain new moderators and new opinions. I am not saying to replace certain moderators, I(and probably FH) just want some new faces.
____________________________

I can't speak about most of this because most of it I understand the staff's view but moderation and such could defiantly be better.

I personally think the punishments need to be fixed and used more professionally, I know many users who have left because of the harsh and sudden way they are applied to them and more often their friends. There needs to be a defined system that won't make the mods look harsh especially to such a small community. Warnings are important, communication between staff is important. I have made suggestions about the matter in the past but my thread was deleted.

My tiny experience as a mod in training on another game has taught me a lot and I'll be more then happy to share my thoughts if they will be listened to.

Thank you for this input as well Chips!

I personally agree all of this. My friends and I have been given kicks as warnings. This isn't fair. Same with the thread you made being deleted. I'd be happy to hear your input in here as well <3