Feral Heart
Game & Forum Discussion => Game Discussion => Topic started by: Helix on May 27, 2011, 08:24:25 am
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I love you MOd. I love you MOd. I love you mod. Say hi SAY HI SAY HI! Can I hug YOU? = Not spam
Leaving a slew of random lyrics = not spam
I NEED A MATE! I NEEED ONE! SOMEONE LOVE ME!!!! I"M LONELY = Not spam
Lets have a dance party! Guys! Guys lets start a dance line! Hey! Dance line! = Not spam
Stating "I lost the game" every ten minutes = Not spam
Cause none of those are pointless, meaningless or annoying to other players oooh nooooo :D
Speaking across the map to friends not near you = spam
Announcing you dog just had puppies and you're happy= spam
Debating if something is a powerplay or not with people not near you (something game related and seeking other opinions from players) = Spam
It seems the use of general chat is in need of a lot of repair. However banning people for the reasons above for it? A little overboard. UNderstandable an hour to cool off maybe but significant months or weeks a a time? How can anyone be asked to PM a mod when 1. the mods don't reply (i've tried) and 2. the ones you are speaking about are the ones meant to help you with the problem they created?
Recently players who voice or question why one thing can or cannot be said are being banned for asking about it, or even just stating "well I don't agree and I think its mean or rude" now that can get you banned. Thats not arguing but if the ruler says it is you can all expect to shortly be smited for it. There is no freedom of speech on FH so don't start to think otherwise or you will be beheaded. Numerous people disagreed with the mod and I noticed some being banned for weeks and the mods friends being banned for only hours. There is favoritism so before you spam please people know you need to butt kiss first :3.
Now the Mod argued that if you need to talk to friends speak in Whisper. That DOES NOT help if you are adressing more than one person. So local was brought up, if you are rping while speaking that also doesn't help does it? Then group was suggested. Well that group is for the rp isn't it? Usually so. People are constantly logging in and out and if one logs in and starts talking about something random will they be banned for missing the warning? You can probably bet this will be so. Because it happened to three people now.
Lastly the solution to this general random chat with friends might just be fixed if SOMEONE fixed the Party tool? IMO if this happened this wouldn't be such a big problem. But there is far too much power hungry habbits being tossed around amongst the last few days on the FH game and though few will speak up out of fear of permanent banning someone needs too. (apologies for any typos my computer will not show me the letters as I type) Thank you :)
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As long as it is only said once, it isn't spam. However people tend to repeat the above lines over and over within a very short amount of time, which then renders it as spam.
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True words Raz... if Users wont learn: They lo(oooo)se(r) the right to play, like in EVERY other serious leadet game too.
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Okay, I find what Raz said a little overboard. Give them three warnings; Two public, one PM. Problem solved. If they don't comply = Kick them for two-three hours, and if they /still/ don't comply, ban them. This is what every magjor game in every magjor industry does, without getting paid.
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I find what Raz and Tigg to be overboard.. Tigg, was the 'looser' thing really needed? It's very unprofessional! :/
This system is corrupt.. members should be given a reason as to why they are banned, and there should be guidelines that all staff follow. Bans should be talked with and reported to other staff so they know. Communication is key! ^^ Just because the staff are getting 'used' or 'taken advantage of' does not mean that the staff should become more.. harsh, with how they deal with things. They should still be considerably relaxed and calm with how they deal with things, and considerate of the situation. =]
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Well, for once I wouldn't threaten bans, I would calmly tell them about bans.
If they continue to keep up their behavior, I 1. Screen shot it. 2. Tell them again that if they keep it up I will issue a full ban on them that will last a week. 3. If they keep it up, I make sure I know what the username is, and tell them it is their last change. 4. They keep it up, I ban them for a week (if within my powers) and look for the username on the forum to find their account and promptly email them about what happened and why they were banned with the screen shot proof. ^^
If I see them online again within the week doing the same thing, I repeat the previous actions, but this time it would be two weeks, and again I would email the user with said reasons why, keeping documentation of all conversations plus additional screenshots I may have to back up my case or theirs.
If I get a PM back of them asking for another staff members input, I'd gladly contact another staff member of higher position to help me out in said situation. It really isn't that hard, and it's basic common sense. :]
After I'd say about a month of this, I'd issue a permanent ban with the consultation of the other staff members, making sure they are fully aware and agree with it. ^^
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I'm not sure if alot of the statements being posted have really to do with the point NonProfiter is saying.. They kinda accept they were banned but from what I see it's more about... well read the first post x.x'' - doesn't seem they are trying to appeal for trolling - it's other stuff..
/staying out of it now Dx/
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I do agree, Slycan. The topic does seem to have strayed slightly.. o:
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First Point.
Mkay, first off, you act Nonprofiter like this is a one time thing. Like your friends got kicked for no reason, not true. I was there, as well as other people when that happened. Second. It would be a completely different story if it wasn't the same people doing the same thing every single night. Oh yes, it's the same thing, same people during Zero Period (time when there are no staff on in game at all, and all heck usually breaks lose.) We all know who they are, the trolls and queen trolls who troll every single night. It just so happens that sometimes during Zero Period there actually happens to be staff on, and they actually happen to see you, and they actually happen to ban you. This is tough luck...? No. You shouldn't of been trolling, spamming, and swearing all over general in the first place and you wouldn't have to get banned in the first place.
Second Point.
What about these people...
MOD# You guys are spamming general, please stop or I'm going to have to ban you.
OMGz we were just talkings!
OMGz your so stupid.
OMGZ you can't tell me what to do.
MOD# Enough.
OMGZ who the f*** do you thinkz you are trying to tell me what to do.
OMGZ I hate you!
OMGZ I think you *swear words* and I think your mommy is *swear words* and your whole life is a *swear words*
MOD# *kicks/bans*
OMGZ your a meanie!
OMGZ etc
MOD# You have all been told to cease all action and you continue. *kicks/bans someone else*
Makes sense to me. The moderator has completely lost control, best way to get it back is by removing the defected people that are in general. Simply kick them until their right mind comes back. Simply said, I think this should have been done long ago. Most def when a few certain troll queens started to pop up. But we forgot to mention these people right?
Point Three.
There currently is a guideline that all staff follow, it's called the rules, and just like the Supreme Court, Raz & Kov leaves it up to interpretation. If a giant Country has nine people who decide how the law goes, I'm sure that the slew of in game moderators can make up for this as well. Now I did say there was a slew, I didn't say there was a legion of them running around, so they simply don't have the manpower to sit there and give every troll Miranda Rights. Plus they already tell you in game when your about to be kicked.
MOD# "Hey if I see you swear again I'm banning you."
OMGZ *swear swear swear*
MOD# *kicks & bans*
You were warned already. Stop pushing the limit.
Point Four.
I don't know how you can be considerate of the situation. I have seen how some of these people speak to some of the moderators, respect flows both ways, and usually the moderators don't sit there and chew out people on general. Actually I've never seen it, i've just seen them kick and ban people. They don't take the time to argue, which is the way to do it. Game rules are right there, read them or be kicked/banned, and then don't come onto the forum to complain when you do.
Meh. But that's my take on it.
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Not really. I see threaten as a harsh word, used when someone is being told off / yelled at in 'threatening' way. Calmly addressing the issue isn't really the same, as far as I'm concerned. ^^
Yes, you did say that, but you weren't that.. specific.
As I stated they are warned before they are banned. What affect does repetitively telling a troll to stop have? 0
^ For a majority, sure, but you can not cluster people and assume everyone is a troll. You need to take the time, have the patience, to look into things and do what is right even if it takes up a bit of time. If you or other staff are unwilling to do this.. :/ ?
i I personally don't see a troll as a loss.
Perhaps they are not, but regardless they are a human, a member, and deserve to have the same level of treatment and respect as any other member, even when a moderators patience wears thin they should be acting professionally.
I also mentioned more than JUST how many times I would warn them. =] I mentioned other things that are an important asset to being on successful and role model type of staff team. 8)
@ Ritza:
"MOD# You guys are spamming general, please stop or I'm going to have to ban you.
OMGz we were just talkings!
OMGz your so stupid.
OMGZ you can't tell me what to do.
MOD# Enough.
OMGZ who the f*** do you thinkz you are trying to tell me what to do.
OMGZ I hate you!
OMGZ I think you *swear words* and I think your mommy is *swear words* and your whole life is a *swear words*
MOD# *kicks/bans*
OMGZ your a meanie!
OMGZ etc
MOD# You have all been told to cease all action and you continue. *kicks/bans someone else*
Makes sense to me. The moderator has completely lost control, best way to get it back is by removing the defected people that are in general. Simply kick them until their right mind comes back. Simply said, I think this should have been done long ago. Most def when a few certain troll queens started to pop up. But we forgot to mention these people right?"
Yes, but there does not appear to be much organization among HOW they go about it. Which appears to be the problem here, hehe.
"There currently is a guideline that all staff follow, it's called the rules, and just like the Supreme Court, Raz & Kov leaves it up to interpretation. If a giant Country has nine people who decide how the law goes, I'm sure that the slew of in game moderators can make up for this as well. Now I did say there was a slew, I didn't say there was a legion of them running around, so they simply don't have the manpower to sit there and give every troll Miranda Rights. Plus they already tell you in game when your about to be kicked.
MOD# "Hey if I see you swear again I'm banning you."
OMGZ *swear swear swear*
MOD# *kicks & bans*
You were warned already. Stop pushing the limit."
Well this is NOT the supreme court and should not be treated as such. They need guidelines, proper guidelines so that staff don't cross paths or don't get confused. It would be helpful to not only the staff, but to members. Rules are nice and sure, they help, but staff should have and deserve some sort of specific list of things that they do. Such as;
1. If a member spams the chat they get etc amount of time kicked.
2. If a member curses etc.
That way, it ISN'T left up to interruption because mistakes/confusion/accidents happen that way. Staff should all be on the same level of knowledge when it comes to these sensitive subjects -- why aren't they? =|
"I don't know how you can be considerate of the situation. I have seen how some of these people speak to some of the moderators, respect flows both ways, and usually the moderators don't sit there and chew out people on general. Actually I've never seen it, i've just seen them kick and ban people. They don't take the time to argue, which is the way to do it. Game rules are right there, read them or be kicked/banned, and then don't come onto the forum to complain when you do."
That's why being staff is important and a serious role. They should keep their cool in situations, be as considerate as possible.
And arguing? Hardly! I don't understand how one can think so one-lined like that.
People, we must give all members their rightful chances, even when you feel they don't deserve it. Follow strict guidelines made for staff. Otherwise, there is no order, confusion will ensue. ^^
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@Owlfeesh (because quoting your posts would fill up my typing space XD)
At first I was sort of agreeing with you, but after a while of reading I'm not so sure. Your comments make sense in same places, but in others seem ridiculous.
Your plan for dealing with these people at first glance seems okay, but if you think about it, wouldn't work. There are way too many people out there that refuse to obey the rules, and you expect the mods to keep up with what every single one of them has done, how long there next ban is supposed to be? You almost seem like you expect the mod to follow these people around on a daily basis to keep an eye on them. Best to deal with it on the spot than draw things out longer than need be. Yes, give a warning before you resort to banning, but your plan seems to go out of it's way to make it easy for people to get around, and avoid being banned when they have reason to be banned.
And your last post has so many things I wish to say about it, but i will keep it simple. And it may jumpe around a bit, I'm tired XD
How do you know how long EACH AND EVERY MODERATOR takes to figure out what's going on? Don't jump to conclusions from a couple of statement or a couple of incidents you have seen. People aren't going to put up the time they took to come to a conclusion on whether someone deserved a ban or not.
You seem to be getting things from peoples posts that were never there to begin with. At what point did Raz say that trolls or whatever are treated with less respect than the rest of the FH community?
Next point you said in post: As said above, your idea is also full of holes that would make it way to easy for rule breakers to get through.
Organisation in how they go about it? I think in that example they seem to be doing fine, they simply can not get the OMGZ people to listen. No amount of organisation is going to stop that.
These people often ARE given chances, more chances than they probably should, but in no way will they listen. Simple fact. No amount of throwing cotton at a brick wall is going to make it fall. You can try and try, but eventually you have to resort to something stronger. Same goes for ignorant trolls and fools who think they are above the rules. No amount of polite considerate warnings are going to get through to them. How many security officers or police do you see giving polite considerate warnings? This isn't the help desk of a supermarket.
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Thank you Raz & Kyugima.
They simply do not have the man power, and no one said anything about first glancing anyone. I'm talking about the known trolls that walk around at night. I'm pretty sure that we can make a list of ten users just between the people in this thread. That's who I'm talking about. Never once did I say "Kick all random people."
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Again, it is how I view it. If you are bent on me using threaten, I will use it. ^^
And no, no other member would be banned. That is absolutely not what I am saying, so please do not twist my words, kind sir. :3 I'm saying that as a human, they should be treated with respect, given rights to an extent. After all, they have feelings, and with a bit of patience anything can be done. Even if that anything ends up being banned. *shurgs*
And I was using that as an example, kindly do not take examples so seriously. If we are to get into a serious conversation regarding a guideline list, I'd gladly do so with you!
And once more, no. The administrators (or more active / high in rank) could decide among themselves what is a proper sort of list that could be used for banning guidelines, then the staff below them go off of that, so there is no confusion.
Now I'll be honest here, I think we're all on the same page just about, with some different ideas about how going about things should be done. In the end, it is up to Kov mainly, with Razmirz and Raksha at his sides to debate and discuss. I just hope what we say is not brushed aside. ~
Please, take no offense to what I say everyone! I'm just out to help and bring ideas forward. ^^
And what if you have a problem with the general moderation / administration and what has been done? I suppose then there is no real answer. :/ Which, you probably have got me there as to what I can reply with.
If I may inquire, however, why do you and others of the staff seem so un-eager to make simple changes for the better for the community?
@ Kyu: Hai! That's okay XD
I'm glad to hear you've agreed, at least to a point. Here is my reply.
"I personally don't see a troll as a loss." - As quoted from Raz. One can imply that people will think less of trolls and therefor, with common sense, one may infer that they will be treated differently. ~
If there are too many people, then they need more in game and forum staff members. I find the solution right before our very noses yet we refuse to look at it, or turn our heads the other way without a second thought! Now, I'm not saying staff need to completely devote their lives to everything in here, but if they are staff, they should be doing the best that they can. Being in game, taking screenshot proof, taking the small amount of time to search members and get an email, along with (if for some reason they are not banned from the forum) replying to any threads they may make. We need to make ALL members feel comfortable, and give them the knowledge they deserve, even when banned.
And I do not know how much time a moderator takes, although I hope they take a considerable amount of time to deal with things. Otherwise, what is the point and why are they staff in the first place?
And I'm sorry but I've seen a lack of organization. I've been talked to by other staff members and seen it with my own eyes. There are staff members that go behind each others back, staff members that wish they could quit or fire someone else. This is no way to act when on a staff team, it's absolutely ridiculous!
And I beg to differ, good ma'am. Politeness and acting calmly, along with patience can go a long way, trust me. (: When worse comes to worse, you know you tried your best but did what you had to. And if challeneged, you have the evidence to say "Well, I tried warning you!"
@Ritza: As I said above, more staff then. Simple solution! 8)
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okay okay - but can someone please explain this part to me seriously... you guys seem to be stuck one one single detail of this thread which would be if Mods should ban Trolls. No DUH they should why are we even debating that x.x!
what what's this thing about them saying Mods don't ban spammers / mate beggers /Advertising in general chat, but "Speaking across the map to friends not near you = spam" and etc..( which kinda started it all it seems...) ? Are there certain mods that wouldn't do one thing that the other does??
That's may be whats causing so much confusion?
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Oh right again, Slycan. My bad! ^^; Raz and all, feel free to shoot me a PM to continue that. =)
Well Slycan, I'm not sure. o: I think they are saying how one is spam, one isn't. I'm.. slightly confused about that. But I'm sure the moderators do what they can about that, without guidelines of course..
This whole thread feels slightly off track. ^^;
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I think that is the problem so far with your argument Owlfeesh. You're shoving words where they don't belong, pardon my "harsh" tone. If you wish to call it that. But the safest thing to do is to read words for what they are. Raz never once said that trolls are less than regular members, nor did anyone say anything about treating them different. What we are saying is "If regular members have/and obviously do (since they aren't kicked/banned) follow the rules, then trolls do as well. Or be removed." That is what is being said.
And the people who were banned yesterday? Meh. If you see a moderator telling you to cease and action, and you really don't want to, at least go to a different map out of the moderators sight if you really don't want to be banned. Sitting there and arguing is begging to be banned. <--- key point.
The thing is, general is used for advertising rps, getting together for rp reasons yes. Not for your social life needs, most def when your all sitting right next to each other and probably could use local in the first place.
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I hardly saw your post as harsh, in fact it's slightly enlightening, thank you! ^^
I think I'll stand with what I've said, but I've completely taken into consideration what you've said, as it makes more sense now, and I may have to agree now. =] Anyway, can we move onto what Sly had said, please? (=
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There's too much to agree and disagree on in this thread. But really now, the only general chat attack is one the users start themselves, mods are really just there to keep it clean.
If people don't want to listen after several warnings they shouldn't come back being mad about it. Mods do not simply just get on the game to argue with people, they may infact sit there and see how the whole abuse of general starts, they're also not able to keep their eyes on the whole game everytime, that's why some people think it's ok to just go and spam their rears off in general.
Even though the staff tries to keep it a rather calm and nice place to be at, the people don't want to change their "bad" habbits, neither is the game fully optimized for keeping it smooth when it comes to situations like these.
In the end, it's the user that decides if they want to have a mod warnings/actions taken on them or not.
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Hmm.. I suppose that's very true Red. In fact the way you word really makes me think and look back.. my posts make little sense and seem like babble now.. XD I need to drink less coffee, it makes me so hyper! lol
Thanks for the post Reddyness! <3
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Mod's say its up to the Members
Members say it's the Mods fault.
I think I speak for alot of people just starting to read these post when I say "wtf is going on?"
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More staff isn't as simple as you seem to be trying to make it seem. They do add more staff, but they can't just get more staff by the boat load, things would get crazy then, and your organisation would be thrown out the window wouldn't it? They can't just grab random people and say "Here's a mod position! I give thee the power to ban and kick!"
And once again I will say this. In no way do I see what raz says as saying that trolls are treated as less than people or treated with less respect than they should. People might get irritated with them, but no one said anything about treating them with less repect, and in all honesty, if they don't treat us with respect, why should we give them the respect they don't deserve? I give respect where respect is due, but it takes me a while to decide whather the person deserves my respect, and during my time of considering if they are worth respect I always treat them politely. I don't see why anyone else wouldn't be the same. After all, for someone to be classed as a troll, it takes more than a little spamming of general with mate searching and all that. Trolls have proven they do not want our respect, and yet are still given it up to a point.
And yes, being polite can get you far BUT NOT ALWAYS. Caps to point that out. Not everyone listens to politeness, and no matter how persistant you are you're not going to get any where. And if the refuse to listen after the first or second request to stop or warning, then they obviously DON'T want to listen. And Modding is really not the place to be as polite as you possibly can be. It just doesn't work in MOST cases. I have had success in small cases, when giving out little warnings for little things, but the majority don't care what mod or member says, and just go about what they do like they are above everyone else.
Trust me, as nice as it would be to be able to go around and give out friendly warnings and be listened to, it won't happen. Too many people refuse to listen to that kind of thing.
(On a off note, I'm getting seriously peed at either this forum or my computer because this site is lagging like anything and it is getting seriously hard to type *Is about to explode* this infuriating lag doesn't help when I'm trying to explain what I'm saying as calmly as possible so it's understandable... When I get irritated my sense of wording or whatever gets out of whack and I can't say what I mean properly >XC)
(Gah, the lag made my post so late that I was ninja'd SEVEN TIMES!!! (make that 8, Raz's ninja'd post got the one up on me XD)Now my post is redundant.... Most of what I was trying to say but the irritation of lag caused me to jumble has been said....)
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My goodness.. Raz, if I may, why are you so.. defensive over this? o_o I'm kindly trying to drop said subject, as I did clearly state I better understand it now thanks to the help of others members. .___.!
1. No, I am not trying to twist your words. ._.;
2. An example is an example, not to be taken seriously. You did not SEEM to show interest into taking the idea into consideration, so why should I waste my time making a long list of serious 'examples' when a simple one should do? :/
3. How in the world would it not be useful!? O_O It would be something for staff to use and helpful, it could not POSSIBLY do any harm.
4. Ah, okay I see now. ^^ I just have seen other communities use these ideas, and well, they seem better off to do is all. I thought it would help the community. <3
5. I see.
6. I could probably name quite a few good staff on this forum that could help you guys out rather well. =] I'd love to PM you the names, if you're curious, or even name them here!
7. I'm not implying that they don't. I don't know the full story, although from what I hear they don't take tell members why they are banned. Although, I suppose I'm in absolutely no position to be one to decide what is fair punishment - however I have my opinions, as usual.~ <3 Thoughtful, however!
8. There have been and could be cases where a member does NOT know why they are being banned. It isn't impossible, and it doesn't take that long to issue a email to said user. I'd do it for all of you if you gave me a list of the usernames and emails and why, I'd give out every email for you guys. ^^
9. I beg your pardon..? I'm not sure what you're saying. If you mean I should report what I know, then please just say that. lol
10. That wasn't a reply to you X3
XD That's okay. lol
@ Ky: It is simple actually. o: I've some people that I think would make splendid staff (yourself included)! With guidelines, it wouldn't get out of hand, not much anyway. Communication is KEY!
No use replying to what other such things you said, it's becoming a repeat game.
Can we PLEASE move on from this subject? It's become a back and forth babble and neither side seems to want to give in, although I do see consideration being taken in from some, which is nice. ^^
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Questions.. sorry again.. just this convo is very interesting..
But what is troll-(ing) exactly - and did these people that were banned for the period give actually break any (written) rules?
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Very good questions, Sly. o:
I guess trolling would also be up for interruption. I'll really leave that to the staff to decide, I suppose. =3
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4. If a staff member has requested that one cease their actions or change their behavior, they are to do it.
This will result in banning and/or kicking.
Even though there really should be a more direct rule about the use of general itself.
Actually, to see the truth, most member ignore most of the rules, and problably don't care to read them or just don't care to mind them.
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^ Indeed, Red.. most members probably don't read the rules.. hrm. Which may lead me to rethink my thought process about this all. I may have to come back to this thread after reading what everyone has said, especially Red and Raz ^^~
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Sorry Kyugima its probably my signature kinda flashy isn't it I'll change it xD
6. pm away
8. Members who don't know have a habit of getting in contact.
9. yes report away
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ah... think that may be the problem >.<
like I said before.. just confusion..
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@owlfeesh
No, as I said, my post became redundant long ago. I considered not posting it, but after the amount of trouble i had to go through to get it to allow me to post I decided I was going to hit post. it was never meant to be a continuation of the conversation that was dropped. Sorry if you saw it that way. On the other hand, the forum or computer got the message, it now no longer takes me half an hour to type a sentence (Exxageration, but you get my point of what I had to go through XD)
(ninja'd again... this is becoming a trend, ninja Kyu XD)
(and again... LET ME POST!!! *cries*)
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Haha, alright Raz will do. ^^
And I liek yer signature raz lol
And oh! XD That's ok ^^
Edit: Lol okay guys, I'm gonna go now.. ^^; I had fun chatting about this with everyone and got some interesting thoughts that I shall think over before posting tomorrow or whenever! XD Sorry if I offended anyone.. <3
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Well this is NOT the supreme court and should not be treated as such. They need guidelines, proper guidelines so that staff don't cross paths or don't get confused. It would be helpful to not only the staff, but to members. Rules are nice and sure, they help, but staff should have and deserve some sort of specific list of things that they do. Such as;
1. If a member spams the chat they get etc amount of time kicked.
2. If a member curses etc.
That way, it ISN'T left up to interruption because mistakes/confusion/accidents happen that way. Staff should all be on the same level of knowledge when it comes to these sensitive subjects -- why aren't they? =|
Want to add some support for this idea.
A clear, concise list of the rules broken and the punishment for them would help keep things MUCH more organized than what is happening right now. Not to mention that this would keep things fair and more professional.
Currently, punishment for something is up to a mods discretion. So while one mod thinks swearing deserves an hour ban, another would give a whole day ban for it. This is hardly fair to the people getting banned. I mean, obviously they shouldn't have been swearing the first place, but it is STILL unfair.
Not to mention, with a clean clear list, mods wont have to worry about if the time is too short, too long, etc. Its just laid out for them so they wont have to worry about it. Not to mention, if someone is like "That's too long a ban! Wah wah wahaambulance!" The mod can just reply that, THAT amount of time is the rules. (Not that the mods have any trouble dealing with whiny people though)
Also, having the punishment times laid out could also scare people into not doing things more. Ex)
"pretending to rape people can give me a whole week ban?? Maybe I shouldn't do that anymore! D: "
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Aside from that, I would like to pose a question. What exactly IS the general chat meant to be used for?
I was just reading the game rules and it has nothing on that chats purpose. Maybe if there was a rule about that people would be more prepared?
In my experience, general chats are meant to be used for just that, general chat. People talking about whatever they want on that server. It usually makes for a fun community just chatting together from all around.
However, it seems that the mods want general to be used only for advertising? This just compounds the need for an advertising chat all on its own. That would keep the chat more organized and allow people to really pick what they want to read on the chat.
Ex)
Looking for an RP? Turn off general & local, turn on advertising.
Bored and want to chat with random people? Turn off local & advertising, turn on general.
Having a RP in local with some friends? Turn off advertising & general, turn on local.
((((Just my 10 cents, lol))))
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Raz; This game is run by.. what, teens? You don't have /most amazing/ system in effect to wash and wipe trolls/spammers. No one around the internet does. That is why you can only /try/ to do this. Your oddly overworked, and seem to be taking this to a personal level. It's just a game that you can feel free to leave at any point/time. You are here to be staff and make decisions for the greater good of the forum. You are not here, as I recall, to get offend at users' comments. If you want to take this up with me, do so in PM form.
If you find this offensive, don't. I'm posting my two cents. Butthurt isn't what I was aiming for.
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Burd... I think I love you.
All in all this entire thing confuses me, From what I got, Owl was stating mods need guidlines, and not to run off personal thinking. Which I whole heartdly stand with. You never let teens run off what they think, I don't get a crap if you think their the most responsible, mature teenager there is. I'm 16 and I know this.
As for what the first post stated, I believe, I've seen that. Senseless spaming and not a mod in sight. Normally I don't report because it's silly stuff and they quit after a bit. But sometimes it gets bad, and I mean very bad, but I normally don't have general turned on so I don't see the full force of it, but when I switch it on, I see parts of god knows what.
Now on the topic of mods, I rarely, of ever see more than 3-4 online per day and it's only the same bunch, save for Raz and Tigg and Red, but I never see them on for a very long time. I understand mods have lives but, if you sign up for a job, and yes moderating this forum/in-game is a JOB, AKA responsibility, you better darn well do it. It's not a little hobby you can sometimes prod at to show your almighty ban hammer powers with once and a while, or abuse, because like sly stated, some kid TOTALY won't get upset over a cruel remark made oversomething and go kill themselves... because thats so never happened before. Mods need guidelines and inactive mods need to be fired.
Thats my opinion and I hope I offened no one, it's simply stuff I've noted and been angered over for the past month or so.
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No offence guys, but how old do you really think the mods are? If you are going to bring that up like it's modding that's wrong because of young age, I should inform you that 20 aren't enough in some cases when putting an age on them.
The age doesn't always matter either so pointing that out doesn't really make any of us smarter.
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Pfft. I suspect most mods to be around 16 and up at the very best.
But..what happened in general last night, was way too over board. :c. Not going to say more, seeing this is just going to turn into a huge argument.
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As for what the first post stated, I believe, I've seen that. Senseless spaming and not a mod in sight. Normally I don't report because it's silly stuff and they quit after a bit. But sometimes it gets bad, and I mean very bad, but I normally don't have general turned on so I don't see the full force of it, but when I switch it on, I see parts of god knows what.
Now on the topic of mods, I rarely, of ever see more than 3-4 online per day and it's only the same bunch, save for Raz and Tigg and Red, but I never see them on for a very long time. I understand mods have lives but, if you sign up for a job, and yes moderating this forum/in-game is a JOB, AKA responsibility, you better darn well do it. It's not a little hobby you can sometimes prod at to show your almighty ban hammer powers with once and a while, or abuse, because like sly stated, some kid TOTALY won't get upset over a cruel remark made oversomething and go kill themselves... because thats so never happened before. Mods need guidelines and inactive mods need to be fired.
Thats my opinion and I hope I offened no one, it's simply stuff I've noted and been angered over for the past month or so.
Well.. certainly hope it doesn't come down to firing .. ):
( Then again, most jobs off and on the net are sadly like this v.v - I would know, it happened to me once and didn't even know why LOL.. You live and learn I suppose..)
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I pointed it out because teenagers can make horrid decisions at times if they don't have a set of rules to follow. Seeing as I know a few of these mods I'd guess the ages range from 16-18? If I'm wrong please correct me. You can be the most mature 8 year old, but that doesn't mean they're not gonna' throw a tantrum over something, and the same applies to teenagers.... But like I said it's an oipnion not a fact. c:
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^ think she's trying to say it's a maturity thing - not an age thing... atleast that's what I hope you are saying xD
(some of the staff team are indeed older than 18, and even older than 20 as red said)
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yay for Sly and her interptering skills of awesomeness! And thiank you for correcting me on the age thing slyness.
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Yep, this thread is way too much talk in it already even though there is infact nothing much that should be argued about right now. This was about general being attacked by mods when mods were just being, mods?
The only reason why people really turns against this is probably because...
They usually hang in general all clogg it with crap just as some of those that got seen.
They havn't been on enough to see how bad general can get in some situations.
Their friend(s) got into trouble for not listening in the first place and want to deffend them.
Or just because they like to argue for funsies? lol.
So is the problem really that mods were too harsh and going on a rampage? No, it isn't.
Bottom line is mods do whatever the can to keep the game under control, if they think something is going of the rails they try to stop it. If users don't hit the breaks and prepare for impact it will be a hard one.
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Actually I haven't been banned ever past ten hours. And no I was never warned and if you pay very close attention to what I said you'd notice that I said Mods banned without warning and i have several logs to prove it. There are MOD's and simply don't deserve to be MODS. Was I speaking about every moderator? No I was speaking about the power nazi ones Like MOD75 :3. Specifically and Only MOD75. I have several logs collected by me and now other members that are sending them too me that STRONGLY back up my case. But why not post it here? Hmm because I'll probably get banned. This is why I didn't just address this privately and made it Public Razmirz. Because no matter what you'll all back eachother in the end. The players voice anything and they are smited like ants under a microscope.
I think that if the Mods were being paid for this they might take their jobs a little more respetively. Again this is not ALL the mods. Currently I am not banned from the game this is for those that are because of this unjust behavior. So for you to say that only the mods put up with crap its dished out too. I was not also creating this to protect spammers for I do believe some people should be banned of course. But for a Mod to say "do say something random in chat pointlessly" then someone log in and say something random and be banned for it when they weren't here when it was said? Then for someone to be banned and another defend and say "Hey that wasn't right to ban them for that" they also get banned? Totally not right. Again you skipped over the point of favoritism as well shown upon others. If this continues I might as well just post up the links to the logs I'm refering to that proves the overboard power rampage that makes one hold themself higher than all else. On every forum so its seen because this is ridiculous. I also offered solutions you are all just arguing about the problem without doing so. Blantant complaining on both ends means nothing. Fix the damn Party unit.
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Even better solution. Fire MOD75
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Also I believe what I spoke of as to what as "= not spam" was by definition of MOD75 so it was spoken in sarcaism for those that seemed to miss that.
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@Raz COnsidering I'm normally online here form the time I wake up to the time I sleep I can disagree. There are some mods on here I haven't seen since the game was released, others only once or twice. Like I said before, I know mods have lives as I have been a mod before on a diffrent site, but it's a responsibility and if you can't handle it you have no bisnuess(sp?) holding that position.
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Business.
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I mean both forum and ingame mods, I do know there are not 74-75 mods... if that is what you meant.
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I think that if the Mods were being paid for this they might take their jobs a little more respetively.
Pardon my poking in the conversation, but I really don't agree with this, Profit. You think money would make better, more respectable mods? Doubt it. Money doesn't fix everything, mind you.
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@ Jazz
It makes the server run .. xD
/seriously I get the point you're making though/
Kinda reminds me about the Canadian Health Care vs. American health care debate we had in highschool.
Sure Canadian is free but American has better and more High-End equipment ( at the time), what would you pick?.. but that's off topic.
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That confuses me a bit but oh well. My concern is of the utter nonsense of 'mods do what every they think is right', and the inactiveness of the in-game mods, because if they were active and did a decent (not to say those who are active don't do a good job) people whom frequent in-game would know and respect the rules by now. From most of the site I've been on, and this is forum only sites I add, that when applying for a mod job the person must be active. If a person isin't active then they should be fired.
AND if there are mods online, why are there countless, ORGINISED(sp?) trolling packs roaming around in-game I've been hearing so much of? In my opnion, there weren't any because there were trolls spamming a cursing for hours on end and I doubt if a mod were online they would just ignore that.. atleast I hope not...
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Because I sent three occurances already to two different members of staff. Zero responses since four days ago now. New evidence is constantly surfacing but reading everything you and the other admin/mods have said it seems you are prepared to back eachother no matter what before anything. I shouldn't say "seems' Its actually a well known fact. As for myself I don't really speak on General chat accept the single time I told the mod they were kind of being a bully to someone who didn't do anything. No response but a Ban, so if I can't trust the supervisors why bother? You'll get your evidence when those that messages me finish putting together and sending me their links to other and all incidents as will all of FH. Patience.
What i meant was if (by money) was if this honesly was a paid job and the threat of loosing it for something that is SOOOOO EASY to do because they throw a tantrum they might think twice about it. I never said money could solve anything I just hated the fact that calling them "volunteers" in such a way that made it seem they were going out of their way was messed up. Have this freakin forum would volunteer to be a MOD gladly, but can they all do it? No.
If I volunteered to weeds in a garden I'm not saying I wouldn't work hard, but if someone was paying me what are the chances I might pay a little more attention to detail rather than accidently uprooting things that were not weeds and ruining the garden?.
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In short FH should see MOD75 exploited 5/29/11 in full at the very latest.
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The least you could do is stop double posting.. Not helping your case. Simple instructions :/
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Lol, I know Sly. ^^
Glad you get my point. I was just stating that if the mods actually got paid, it wouldn't make them better at what they do.
I get what you're saying now, Profit. But, I think, if there was a way of, I guess 'repaying' the mods, it'd just be getting to be on the staff team in the first place. I'm sure the mods are honored to be on the team, and that for me is enough to keep me active and do my best. Wouldn't you do the same?
Edit: Okay, I'll put it like this then: Wouldn't you do your best because you were hand picked to be on a staff team?
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I don't understand your question Jazz.
And I was asked not to triple post, not double but fine I won't.
In the end this really isn't for my benifit, but others that were given injustice thus the name. After the date listed I intend to delete this account and leave this game. Its supposed to be fun, and this simply isn't. Its just out of control.
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Stay within the Rules and everyone can have Fun.
Go against and loose the Fun.
If there is somthing handeled wrong, SCREENSHOT it and report it to the Admins instead of dramallama a Thread.
If you dont get an Answer to your Report asap, use your Brain and guess the Staff is actually thinking about this and trying to find a Solution, just forgot to inform you right away since this is serious business.
End of Story.
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Actually reasons for being banned weren't listed in the rules :3 ( I'm not addressing all matters of being banned. YOu are stating what is SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN, I am talking about WHAT DID HAPPEN.) But you'll see that too. Again this isn't about all MODs, so stop looking over things because its starting to get irritating. If I handed in somehting 4 days ago and don't get a reply not even a note that it will be under review or anything then how am I to blame? I wasn't complaining about not having a reply I was telling YOU PERSONALLY that I have given evidence. Since I don't get a relpy from any of you, I'll give the evidence to the people. I will not discuss this further online.
End of Story from me. :3
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@Ghosting
Hmm a set of time frames aye? considering I'm probably the harshest person in game when it comes to handing out bans you guys would probs be happier with the mods picking lengths bearing in mind I never ban for less than a day and I never kick (have also handed out a few 1 year bans). Personally I'd be grateful for a mod being lenient if I was banned for a few hours.
The "General" in general chat doesn't refer to the content it refers to the audience so its only used for broadcasting when you need to broadcast something across the map to a lot of people we have groups so really general shouldn't be used that much.
General can be used for chatting etc but take a moment to think do I really need to use general or are all my friends local to me?
Well the idea for the set times is that it would be talked about and agreed upon by all of the mods/admins. That way it should be a good average time. If you like really long times and some other mod likes really short times, hopefully the time would middle out to a compromise. At least, that would be the ideal solution.
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As for the general chat, where does it say that it is for the general audiences just for 'broadcasting'? I'm not arguing with you if you say its the rule, I'm just asking where that rule is posted. It's not in the rules section of the forum, so how do you expect your members to know its a rule until they are reprimanded for using it incorrectly? Obviously people should use better discretion when using it, but what if you are bored and want to talk with strangers all over the map?
@ your last sentence: Honestly, I am still confused about this. What is the general chat really for? You CAN use it for chatting? Wasn't the point of this thread that people were getting banned for chatting on it?
I think what the general chat is meant to be used for should be clarified.
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Actually reasons for being banned weren't listed in the rules :3 ( I'm not addressing all matters of being banned. YOu are stating what is SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN, I am talking about WHAT DID HAPPEN.) But you'll see that too. Again this isn't about all MODs, so stop looking over things because its starting to get irritating. If I handed in somehting 4 days ago and don't get a reply not even a note that it will be under review or anything then how am I to blame? I wasn't complaining about not having a reply I was telling YOU PERSONALLY that I have given evidence. Since I don't get a relpy from any of you, I'll give the evidence to the people. I will not discuss this further online.
End of Story from me. :3
Doesnt change anything.
Got no reply and being complainemt you are, if not you wouldnt make a big deal. Anythou, there are 4 Admins, i am one of them, and Raz is too. We both have never got any PM about this, so im wondering who you send the oh so called evidence to, since you refuse to send again. Getting unserious here.
And again. If somthing is handeld wrong, talk to someone of the Staff. if you dont get response, ask again.
We cant get to know if somthing is runing wrong if no one comes up showing Screenshots of this.
What happened, happened, not changeable anymore.
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There is a known bug in the forum at the moment were PM's don't get sent .. or they get sent to random people it wasn't meant for.
Also sometimes members PM forum mods about in-game issues not knowing that they are NOT in-game mods. ( again.. more confusion..) So the forums mods have to either PM admins for them or tell them to do it themselves, which could be alil frustrating for both parties.
but this is just a sample of a few cases from awhile ago.
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Make that 3 tigg. I havn't got any edvidence either here profit.
I think I mentioned earlier in this thread that there should be a more solid rule about general chat. But that doesn't change the fact that if a mod warns about the use of general, people shouldn't ignore it.
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A agree with you red, but that doesn't change the fact that there isn't a rule on it right now. Or at least, not one posted, and I am still unsure of what is allowed for general chat.
Also, if what this person is saying is true, that there were bans without warning, then the lack of rule could have caused a lot of bans.
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Well, not maybe a rule that goes direct to the general chat. But there infact a rule that I quote earlier and I will quote it again.
4. If a staff member has requested that one cease their actions or change their behavior, they are to do it.
This will result in banning and/or kicking.
This is a rule that is very important, and needs to be followed.
EDIT
How will it help if a mod says "stop spamming general" and people continues as before or just tells the mod they are free to do as they like? If a mods warning doesn't get through, then what does except a ban and kick?
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Again, I agree with you, mod's word is law.
So Red, do YOU know the rule for general chat? Could you clarify for me please?
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@ ghosting
I can only tell you how I'd see the usage of general chat since there is no "nailed" rule to the board just yet(I thought we wouldn't need one at first actually).
Since FH is a big game, with some big maps, alot of people talk in these chats.
As we all know local goes to the ones closer around you within tag sight. And general.. Well it goes to the whole map.
This means that if someone talks on general, EVERYONE will see it within a map.
Does everyone within the game need to know you powerplayed slapped someone 500times?(took this from the ingame chat just now). No they do not, does everyone need to know how you ingame raped someone earlier? No, they do not. General should be treated gently if you ask me, and not be used like it is some sort of msn group convo.
Now compare these:
Someone hosting a warriors cat roleplay next to ficho tunnel
And someone says that they peed on someone in the game and the writes 3 rows afterwards with faces such as >_>.
Which one of these are the more important ones? Could you tell someone in local next to you that you peed on them? Could you use local tell people on the other side of the map that you're hosting a roleplay?
We already have rules about not talking innapropiate things, not spamming and no swearing, and also a rule that says that you should listen to mods. And yet, some people don't even think twice and give the mods more work, and then call the out for doing a bad work, such as this thread.
People also say that they see other people spam general, but yeah.. Does this make it ok for you to robb a store just because you saw someone else do it? Ofcourse not.
Alright, so it's unfair since you want to talk to someone on the other side of the map and tell them how much you hate justin beiber. Well what about the whisper function, doesn't that work? What about friending? What about group conversations?
If a mod thinks people shouldn't be abusing the chat, then why not use the other ones?
The mod banning someone and being harsh is one thing since there's always a chance for them to feel they got treated wrong. But the rules, and ingame functions makes it easy to stay away from getting these. And mods really just do what they're meant to be doing. Sorry for all the question marks, but I want people to think for themselves abit.
We could indeed use some sort of rule that helped users from being confused about this. If someone else think that general chat should be used in another way then it's their oppinion. But as someone that helps on this forum as much as I can. And also someone that like to play the game. I really don't understand what the mods did wrong.
I also don't see what kind of things people use to deffend themselves when they say that the mods are wrong and they should be free to do as they like even though everything is there, right infront of their noses.
I also want to quote this that I said earlier.
The only reason why people really turns against this is probably because...
They usually hang in general all clogg it with crap just as some of those that got seen.
They havn't been on enough to see how bad general can get in some situations.
Their friend(s) got into trouble for not listening in the first place and want to deffend them.
Or just because they like to argue for funsies? lol.
So is the problem really that mods were too harsh and going on a rampage? No, it isn't.
We also had 3 administrators inside this thread out of 5. And raz did say earlier he get edvidence that talked for the mod, not against it.
Does people get a thrill out of creating these threads? I'm starting to think so.
To make the entire thread short
-Could use a rule that just points towards that the general chat aren't meant for spamming, and that mods should be listened to(Though there already is?)
-People got banned and aren't happy about it
I will also say again, mods are here to keep the game place clean and calm, just as this forum.
Not much more to say.
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I understand where you are coming from, Red. I'm not sure if the mod/s did anything wrong either, as I wasn't there and don't have any screen-shots to judged them by. All I know is that some people were banned for .. "chatting"? And might or might not have been given a warning. Without any pictures I'd say that is all up in the air.
However, I'm not really saying anyone is at fault, I just believe that there SHOULD be a dead set rule for general. At least, if people ARE being banned for posting in it incorrectly.
Obviously, I can understand your example perfectly. However, I can also see why people post stupid crap in general. I believe a lot of it is younger players not really used to how global/local chats operate. I also believe it has to do with maturity. If someone is talking to their friend nearby, they should definitely use local, I just don't think some people really realize that they are polluting the chat. Of course here, a mod should step in and warn/ban the person.
However, I think that my real confusion is whether people from around the map, who are bored/doing other things, should be allowed to all have a community chat on general. As Raz stated before he (and I believe you as well?) think it should be more for just advertising? I honestly believe it comes natural for everyone to start chatting together. Especially if there is a chat that everyone can see.
Of course, I believe this is where the problem lies. Should people chatting get in the way of advertisements for RPs, etc? Which is why I believe there should be two global chats, advertising and a global chat.
So in the end, I only have one final question. Is community chatting allowed on general?
If we have a set rule for this, I believe it will solve a lot of these conflicts.
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Indeed ghost.. Now as raz mentioned very early in this thread, mods used to be more laid back before. But as users seem to take advantage of it, it has gotten alot worse and mods need to be more harsh. I don't see how having 2 general chats would solve the problem of people saying innapropiate things when they get together and have their "troll rolls".
I still throw the light back on my previous post here.
Another thing is, that when I have been around and a mod got on, it wasn't really the chatting in general, since I wouldn't call it a chat even.
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Is community chat allowed in General Chat?
I would love to hear this too, seeing that I use it mostly in FH to begin with. That way I can talk to people not on my friends list and I can not find them in the map.
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Is community chat allowed in General Chat?
I would love to hear this too, seeing that I use it mostly in FH to begin with. That way I can talk to people not on my friends list and I can not find them in the map.
That's what I wanna know. All I see is them beating around the bush. Not giving a direct answer.
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Exactly. I'm pretty much done talking semantics until they answer that question for me.
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I can't really answer that on my own. But I want to say this.
Would getting a rule that banned chatting from general be nice towards everyone that isn't abusing it just because some people tend to spam and talk innapropiate?
also
Would not having a rule make it ok for everyone to ignore a mod when he/she tells general chat to calm down?
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I can't really answer that on my own. But I want to say this.
Would getting a rule that banned chatting from general be nice towards everyone that isn't abusing it just because some people tend to spam and talk innapropiate?
also
Would not having a rule make it ok for everyone to ignore a mod when he/she tells general chat to calm down?
Answer me this.
Would a mod, who is starting a fight, being power hungry and down right immature, okay?
I think not, any how. I'm done with this thread. Were not getting the answer we want, you guys just keep beating around the bush, for whatever reason. :/.
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Yes, a mod would be if they started a fight, but mods doesn't start a fight just because they tell, stop that, don't say that, don't do this etc.
And the answer is something I told I can't tell by myself right now, and no others are here right now. Now what about my question?
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No, the mod started the fight. Not the other user.
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Alright, how did the mod start the fight?
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Alright, how did the mod start the fight?
Not completely sure, but I saw the red lettering enough. I had general turned off at the time. I do have a screen shot of what the mod said, but not the whole convo of what happened in general last night. I should of taken screen shots..but I lost connection and lost it all.
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So, you aren't sure how it started, yet you say the mod is responsible... I'd like to see the screenshot though so feel free to send me a pm.
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So, you aren't sure how it started, yet you say the mod is responsible... I'd like to see the screenshot though.
Well, like I said, I had general turned off. /Shrug. When I turned it on, peeps were already flooding the mod with questions, ect. But I'll send a the screenie.
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Yes... but this
No, the mod started the fight. Not the other user.
You just said you didn't know right after that's why.
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Yes... but this
No, the mod started the fight. Not the other user.
You just said you didn't know right after that's why.
Ask Onai, or the other that they banned. Or any that were in the plains that night. I'm pretty sure they can fill you in on everything.
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I can't really answer that on my own. But I want to say this.
Would getting a rule that banned chatting from general be nice towards everyone that isn't abusing it just because some people tend to spam and talk innapropiate?
What? No. Its not about people abusing the chat, its about people just TALKING and if talking IS 'abuse'. Obviously people spamming and all that are stupid, but this isnt about spamming or abuse. Its about Chatting and if its okay on general.
also
Would not having a rule make it ok for everyone to ignore a mod when he/she tells general chat to calm down?
Of course not. But I still dont see what this has to do with chatting on general being allowed or not.
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Ah, I remember someone who was on during that night when this happened..But they got off. I'll hafta ask if they got screen shots, or could say something on this matter..
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Now, about this thread.
I spoke to Razmirz about this, and he still havn't received any shred of edvidence that proves misconduct of a mod. If you got edvidence raz would like to see it, so feel free to send him a pm.
I have opened a thread about the content of general here, feel free to input.
http://feral-heart.com/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=2&jfile=index.php&topic=7128.new#new (http://feral-heart.com/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=2&jfile=index.php&topic=7128.new#new)
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Could imagin its kinda hard to take screenshots or any evidence after being banned..
(http://i53BannedImageSite/1183rd0.png)
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Sly you made me giggle so hard..
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However if you took screenshots beforehand, would not those count? No, they probably wouldn't. Because others have claimed they did the same thing, and been ignored anyhow. How do you expect us to trust the people who would be the ones to cause us so much irritance?
I've watched this thread for the past day or so now, and the question which everyone has thus far asked? Still not clearly answered. So, you're basically saying you don't have a rule for General, and there is no rule posted on the use of General. Yet it's perfectly fine for them to ban people for breaking these non-existent rules in game? How in the world do you expect people to follow a rule they cannot see?
~Onai.
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I agree with Melinda, here. You need to get ground rules in game immediately. And make sure they aren't too harsh. Having an automated system for when people break these rules also works. If the rules say 'Don't spam' and someone does, 2 hour ban. No need to get your hands dirty, mods. >->