Author Topic: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal  (Read 12518 times)

Offline DylanCheetah

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Re: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal
« Reply #50 on: June 12, 2020, 02:15:03 pm »
Kudos to Kuri for his previous post. +floof
I would like to add something here. I don't know how many of you know this, but I work for a small IT game run by Tigg. And there are times when we have absolutely zero players online. And there are times when the servers are down for a few days. But we never give up. And we never say the game is "dead". Doing so would be like surrendering without even seeing the "battlefield" . And we have steadily been getting more players due to our hard work and dedication. So why should anyone give up on a game that in fact has more players and less downtime?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 02:17:05 pm by DylanCheetah »

Offline Dark_heart

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Re: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal
« Reply #51 on: June 12, 2020, 02:24:07 pm »
Kudos to Kuri for his previous post. +floof
I would like to add something here. I don't know how many of you know this, but I work for a small IT game run by Tigg. And there are times when we have absolutely zero players online. And there are times when the servers are down for a few days. But we never give up. And we never say the game is "dead". Doing so would be like surrendering without even seeing the "battlefield" . And we have steadily been getting more players due to our hard work and dedication. So why should anyone give up on a game that in fact has more players and less downtime?
I know, you're admin on their forum (: (tell me If not). I've never played this game, but I can imagine how much people play that in one hour. It's good example for people who says FH "dead". Other IT servers are not popular as Feral Heart (unfortunately). But they have people who loves these games. And they don't give up. So why WE have to give up?
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Re: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal
« Reply #52 on: June 12, 2020, 02:37:21 pm »
I don't have the game anymore on my laptop but I still check the forums a few times a day. I say let it live for as long as Raz wants to keep going. Whether that be no updates or a suddenly a ton of them, he is the one who pays for this game to stay up, so it is ultimately up to him.
Of course there is a lot of drama with this game, some people may even say this community is toxic cause of all of the snide remarks thrown at each other. Buuuut, doesn't every community have drama and bad apples? I used to be for shutting FH down in the next year or two, at least give it a 10 year run, but now I'm pretty neutral. If people still want to play the game, let them. FHU is going to be a big thing, it gets talked about enough, so yeah I'm sure the people playing FH will go down even more. But there are updates planned for this so called "dead" game. I have decided to stay with the original FH no matter how many other servers get made. This game seems to get endless hate nowadays and it's really starting to get exhausting going in circles about same issues over and over again. This is an old, furry chat game, it really doesn't need all this.

Offline LordSuragaha

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Re: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal
« Reply #53 on: June 12, 2020, 03:04:11 pm »
Still, realistically, why do people join games such as these? Do people typically join a gaming community after evaluating how much the administration has personally sacrificed to keep a game orderly? People join for content and the experience of playing the game, not for how emotionally invested staff members⁠—not even developers⁠—are in the game.
 
I will argue that not everyone in-game even knows who the staff are because they do not care to know if they do not directly affect their experience. When I joined FH, I had no idea who the staff were, how they worked, how active they were, etc. Once I became more involved in the forum, I dedicated a lot of my time and regarded the staff very highly for their work, although looking back now, sometimes I wasn’t really sure what that work was (in regard to promised forum work, anyways). After my experience with staff head-on and my experience with administrating the community’s largest Discord server, I can now form my own opinions on the game’s administration through various interactions with the community, current staff, and former staff.
 

This is something I’ve said. Let’s be honest here, the only reason there’s this huge fixation on staff in recent years is because there’s nothing better for the community to put their attention on. The game isn’t actively getting updates and content to keep them invested in other avenues so now of days the community that is left is searching for anything to do, say, and or blame for why things are the way they are. It’s really that simple.

If you start seeing the game get updated more frequently and content pouring in, the focus will then shift to the game again.

Part of the issue with the tone between the community and staff is because they’re way too involved in each other’s matters to a seemingly personal level. You said yourself you never knew the staff or cared much about them up until you directly involved yourself with them. You then formed your own opinions on them. When you put yourself in a place to get to knowing people more personally that’s when you apply deeper attachments or stronger emotions to them and the things they do. This is why between both some community & staff they react more strongly in regards to matters. I think some are taking things too personally and applying those feelings too much into these matters. It’s actually why you have some staff teams out there who choose to remain in the background to not risk theses sort of issues. As I said before there’s no universal correct way for how gaming communities handle things, but from my own reflections, the moment the staff & community gets too strung up on each other and personal matters things go down hill. Same goes for any form of work place. In life you’ll meet people you might not like, agree with, etc. Same goes with a staff team of a game you might like. Just because you like or care about the game doesn’t mean you’ll necessarily like, get along with, agree with the people behind the game. And that’s not always down to just the fault of either individual, that’s just human nature. Outside of the game world when you don’t get along with someone or agree with them you disassociate with them, don’t talk to them, etc.

This is why of the many game communities I’m a part of I simply focus on the game itself. I don’t care to know the staff/devs or interact with them, cause the moment you do that you’re destined to set yourself up for problems since, like I said, humans will be humans. Same goes for staff towards community. Life isn’t all about getting along or agreeing with each other, what matters is that we get stuff done and in this case that’s a game. Once the game can start updating again everyone will find some peace I’m sure, because the focus will be back on the right place.

Suggesting people that have also worked their asses off to voluntarily assist staff with reports in the past as now “giving constant misinformation, doubt, [and] ridicule” only breeds more tension.

Mind the language as we do have forum board rules. But yeah, where in that statement did I say that it’s the people working their hardest or giving reports that are the ones who “give constant misinformation, doubt, ridicule etc”.

In fact let me quote that phrase:

Does it really make sense to think that a staff team that has to deal with constant misinformation, doubt, ridicule, trolling, death threats and so forth would stick around for nothing?

No where did I say it was those people because the type of people helping the community aren’t the ones doing those things. Several times here I’ve seen people jump on that statement to twist it up to seemingly fill some false narrative or misconstrue my words. You know me, if that was what I was saying I would straight up say it. As I said before that statement was a list of examples of the varying degrees of reception we receive and deal with and how we don’t just give up simply because it’s not always positive.  Stop assuming things that I didn’t say. We’re trying to improve communication not misinterpret it further.

Offline Dark_heart

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Re: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal
« Reply #54 on: June 12, 2020, 03:25:46 pm »
"Do not follow others, because you will be them yourself"

Remember, everyone. I said that and I'll say it again: respect other's answers. All have diffrent opinion to say. But I'm not talking here about anyone who has spoken; you respect each other. But remember. I do not think that this thread will create a drama, but people - as Sura said - are people. So keep in mind what I said, and remember that you have your opinion - and no one can take away your right to express this opinion (but at the same time respect the rules of the forum ;) ).

I think this thread was good idea (but talking about FH's dying isn't easy for me). You all wanted more staff-members communication and you have it. So thank Sura for giving explanations and other people who said their opinions.
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Offline DylanCheetah

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Re: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal
« Reply #55 on: June 12, 2020, 03:49:36 pm »
There is another important point I must make here.
Did anyone consider the fact that Kov could have just told Raz to shut everything down years ago? But he cared enough to allow him to continue running this game do we would all have a place to continue enjoying. He didn't have to do that. Do you really think that he would have wanted all this recent drama and past drama to happen? What would he say if he was still here and saw what was going on?

I think we can all agree that we are thankful that he did indeed allow this game to continue even after he left.

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Re: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal
« Reply #56 on: June 12, 2020, 04:19:00 pm »
Yes, this game continued for a reason, so we can all still enjoy it, but really i dont think we are with all of this drama so we should just find a solution to stopping this drama and with that i dont mean shutting down the game, i want a real solution

Offline BloodWinsAll

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Re: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal
« Reply #57 on: June 12, 2020, 04:31:33 pm »
Yes, this game continued for a reason, so we can all still enjoy it, but really i dont think we are with all of this drama so we should just find a solution to stopping this drama and with that i dont mean shutting down the game, i want a real solution

I second this- but I'm going to have to agree with Sura also because as pointed out above- people are focusing on the staff instead of the game because the game hasn't been updated as often as people would like. While I'm of the mindset that this is a free game very niche game I'm content to wait for whatever the staff are working on. That being said, I also think letting the community somewhat in the loop with teasers would be very appreciated instead of what is happening now. I definitely know that it takes a lot of discussion and work before things can be shown off and I'm sure that in itself is frustrating for both parties. I'm sure it will take even more discussion to find a good solution for the community and game as a whole.

As for pulling the plug, which was the original statement made in this thread, I'm going to have to politely disagree and counter with letting people who want to ride out the game to do so. I understand most of this comes from a place of love/frustration with the game but calling for it to die while there are still people who actively use the game is, in my opinion, not the best option. I hope this next part doesn't come off as rude: but I think it would be a better alternative that if you're suggesting the game die you move on to something else and let the game be. I'm not trying to say don't provide criticism/suggestions just that if you think the game should end to move on.

On a side note: watching people change sura's words live on this thread has made me even more on the fence of how I feel about communication as a whole. It's obvious both sides need to work on how they communicate but it's even more apparent to me that the community needs to read carefully instead of assuming meaning behind well-worded statements by staff.

I don't mean any of this to come off rudely ;; I'm not the best at articulating my thoughts so feel free to correct me if I misunderstood something.

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Re: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal
« Reply #58 on: June 12, 2020, 04:55:50 pm »
Several people have made the point that I just leave if I am no longer interested in the game. Here's the problem with that: I left a long time ago. Aside from making occasional opinion posts (which, mind you, are admittedly always in the extreme, simply for the fact that I know it'll get people to talk. I mean, it's clearly an issue in this community for people to communicate- but now we've got a pretty great opinions thread going). So, why did I suddenly start using the forums? Because in December I heard character design artists were needed, and I applied because I was bored. Now, I'm impossibly tied up in this game's history as a 'former dev' (when, to be quite honest, FHU started the day after I joined- so was I ever really an FH dev? ).

I think that its time this thread was locked. It wasn't meant to spark as much of a rift as it did, and now that my flaming hot take has sparked some genuine discussion (ie; the reveal of the online counter being inaccurate by addition of 50 or so, as well as the thoughts and feelings of staff) I would say it's served it's purpose, and continuing to argue here is pointless. People have stated their opinions on this, and people will hardly every change their mind. Especially now that both sides feel the need to dig their heels in.

Offline LordSuragaha

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Re: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal
« Reply #59 on: June 12, 2020, 05:25:31 pm »
I think that its time this thread was locked. It wasn't meant to spark as much of a rift as it did, and now that my flaming hot take has sparked some genuine discussion (ie; the reveal of the online counter being inaccurate by addition of 50 or so, as well as the thoughts and feelings of staff) I would say it's served it's purpose, and continuing to argue here is pointless. People have stated their opinions on this, and people will hardly every change their mind. Especially now that both sides feel the need to dig their heels in.

Continuing to argue? There’s not much arguing here and I’m sorry if you felt you had to. Most everyone here is just expressing differing opinions without the need to argue. Differing opinions don’t always mean people are arguing either or that there’s a “rift”. Also this shouldn’t be about trying to change peoples’ minds but rather helping people with different opinions better understand and respect each other’s differing opinions. We don’t all have to agree with each other to get things to work out. But if you feel that there’s no point in going further with this discussion then I’ll go ahead and lock this for you as you requested. Thank you for your feedback Aureilius.