Feral Heart

News & Official Information => News => News Archives => Topic started by: PrettyReckless on July 24, 2020, 11:46:35 pm

Title: To clear a few things up..
Post by: PrettyReckless on July 24, 2020, 11:46:35 pm
Helpline/Censorship
To clear up the whole "Censorship" issue, Razmirz didn't choose to remove the helpline thread because of the user posting it.
FeralHeart simply does not want to be held responsible if a user doesn't get help.
The mental help works in very many different ways, depending on the country you're in.
We've got nobody who is educated to advice in such a situation what anyone should do.
Therefore, we feel we should not make posts that seem like official advice, as it may misguide our users.

GDPR Law/Deleting accounts
To set records straight regarding the apparent breach of the GDPR law.
Once a user is banned, we have the right to refuse the said account to be deleted.
This is because we are actively using that information to uphold the ban.
Once the ban ceases, the user is more than welcome to delete their account.

For further information on this policy, please look HERE (https://feral-heart.com/smf/index.php?topic=68746.msg944768#msg944768)
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: LordSuragaha on July 25, 2020, 12:30:31 am
I would like to express my utmost gratitude to you all for your patience. The reason I took so long to respond is to make sure I approached you all with a clear well rested mind. It wasn’t my intention to make you feel as though you were being ignored or as if I was avoiding the issue. Anyone who knows me around here knows I’m rarely one to not be outspoken about matters, and that includes my own mistakes and short comings.

The recent tensions that arose are a result of actions I took against fellow community members a few days ago.

I considered my actions as a justified response to thwart a further escalation of the events at the time. Having had more time to personally reflect on the matter I believe I could have responded in a way that was positive and more well deserving for everyone involved. While I did consult with the team on the matter it was I who made the final decision to orchestrate things. I acted against my better judgment and for that I am deeply ashamed. I know I could have done better to protect the rest of the staff and community from needless trouble and upset. My actions reflected poorly not just on my own judgement but had the additional consequence of negatively representing my team and what we stand for.

As a member of staff since 2012 I made a pledge to serve and protect the community, but as of recently I have failed to do such and for that I am deeply sorry. I’m aware that it is not enough to simply apologize though. While I acknowledge my mistake I must work hard to learn from it and look to do better in the future, and that is what I intend to do from today onward. As a start, the undeserving bans will be lifted.

I’m sorry to all those I have let down and hurt.

I respect if some of you decide not to accept my apology or have lost trust in me. I deserve that. But even still that will not stop me from working to renew myself for you.
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: LaughingWolf on July 25, 2020, 12:57:41 am
I'm pretty sure most of those removals were for years and I'm pretty sure, that holding onto that information when asked for it to be deleted, is illegal. Regardless of the reason that party wants it removed, you don't get to keep it.

The breach was when one of you decided to show off that information, not the fact you'd had access to it. That much is known as you're moderation staff.

Secondly, the thing about a self help thread like that, is it isn't so much advice as it is equal access for those who can't access them otherwise. Whether that be due to familial-pressure, inability to seek help in other traditional means. They were ONLY a reference, not advice-giving. That post was a "Here is this info in case you need it," not a "You should probably use this info if you're ... " there is a large difference between the two. How the hell would anyone even track that down anyway? Prove that they looked at an obscure forum post and not get help? That just.. the logic behind that still confounds me.

The fact that it took y'all 6mos to notice it was even there, is just amusing to me. It just shows how dead the forums really are. I'm not even requesting you reinstate the information. I just think that's a stupid reason to remove it.

As for you, Sura, the jury is still out on that. Decisions were made, actions were taken, and you can't take that back, even if you do reinstate some of those users. Your trust is gone at this point.
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: Bloo. on July 25, 2020, 01:01:58 am
I think an important thing to take away from part of this is that Sura apologized, she reversed the bans, and we are all trying to move forward. I know this apology may not be accepted because yes, decisions and actions were made that can't be taken back in an emotional capacity, but for now we need to continue to try and push ahead~
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: wolfdog01 on July 25, 2020, 01:34:57 am
Thank you staff for letting us know something. Not everyone will accept the apologies and explanations they have been asking for, but I think it was good of ya'll to come out and say something about it. FH is still alive as long as there are people to play it. People make mistakes and this game is not a matter of life or death, but hopefully some people will be satisfied enough.
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: Leafwolf on July 25, 2020, 01:54:08 am
Hello!

This is ShaaBAM, I mean't to get on that one but I've been having some issues lol

Its day 4 and I still have the same question- why were my friends banned?

I've been waiting for a response but nothing has come. No-one has given a direct answer, and I'm still here waiting on day 4 of asking.

Also, please don't respond with "to stop escalation", because some weren't even responding. Some were only looking. I would be very grateful if you could read this over, because it documents everything.

Link removed by moderator.-

Apologies are nice, but still with no answer is very concerning! Thank you for your time.
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: Falconry on July 25, 2020, 02:34:29 am
Regarding the helplines, you have to know that's nonsense. "We don't want to be held responsible if someone doesn't get help. So we removed the resources someone could use to get help" and ""It looks offical""? It's a suicide hotline number. You see them posted on the walls in train stations, you can host some on your website. You won't get sued. That's ridiculous.

For Sura? Yeah, no. Just going on a ban-spree in response to people asking very civil questions and all we get is an "I'm sorry"? What were you trying to prevent from escalating? There was no escalating until you started locking threads and banning people.

I'm gonna need more than "I'm sorry I'll do better." I need you to step down. You banned people who weren't even participating.

As for the GDPR guidelines, while you are within your rights to keep the data to uphold a ban, you must provide a concrete way to contact you to request account deletion. Just because you can choose to keep the data does not revoke one's right to request it deleted anyway. I suggest having an email or something, as I've looked and there is no real directions on who and where to contact about it.

Also you're on shaky grounds with that to begin with, because we know you can just do an I.P ban, and I fail to see how you need someone's account to just block their I.P

----

All in all, a horrible ''apology'' and it seems like nothing's going to change. Congrats on messing up something this simple, I suppose.
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: Falconry on July 25, 2020, 02:42:25 am
Oh, and let's not forget Sura publicly posting someone's supposed alternate accounts/doing an I.P search and posting the (censored) results. Quite threatening and in horrible taste.
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: ZombieKitteh on July 25, 2020, 04:33:54 am
I've been debating posting for some hours now that I'm unbanned. I'm not going to lie it gave me really bad anxiety and still does. I feel posting something is needed, however. It'd feel wrong not to. And so here I am. I'm not a petty person. I'm not here to argue or throw up a fuss. I hadn't even posted on any of the other threads before I was banned. Being honest I haven't even posted or been on these forums or the games since May. You can use my post history as proof of that. I wasn't part of the initial issue and I still don't plan to be.

Do you know how long I've been supportive of Feral Heart? Since 2011 when I joined. I was here when Kovu was. I saw wings be added, groups be fixed. I've seen staff come and go and everything in between. Have I always been happy with how things are here? Not entirely. Was I vocal years long past? Yes. Feral Heart is a game and I see it as such, but it's also a nice cluster of nostalgic memories that I've held dear over the years. So I've stuck around, mellowed out as the years have gone by. Heck, my roleplay group still has a child board up on these forums.

FHU gave me a passion and a chance to work with a community and game I've always loved for a long time. I still feel that way. Since getting on the FHU team I haven't made much of a peep here. I've lurked, but rarely posted aside for my roleplay group. And what happened? I was banned, by association... and that stings. It still does. I felt targeted unfairly and still feel rather uncomfortable and anxious.

I will say the apology is appreciated, even if it still sort of stings. It takes a big person to admit their wrong and apologize. I can appreciate that. Bloo as well the other day on that other thread. It's a step in the right direction for FH. I'm proud of you.

I'll be civil as I have been. I have no ill-will towards any of you. Disappointment and hurt, but not hatred. Thank you for unbanning me. While it's appreciated I'm still highly anxious and uncomfortable on this forum and game. I'll be taking my leave. My one alt has already been deleted and in the following days this main account of mine will too after I make a formal farewell thread.

Despite this supposed 'rivalry' between our games (which I don't see from our side, but I'll agree to disagree) I wish you all and FH the best in the coming future. Once you hit the lowest you can only go up from there.

Goodluck.

(PS If possible I still request my name be removed from the spring news post as I was never staff here. That'd be highly appreciated to help with my anxiety)
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: leda on July 25, 2020, 05:13:10 am
I wasn't going to reply but it felt weirder not to.  I'd like to say though that what I'm saying right now is my personal thoughts and I don't speak for FHU staff/devs etc, I haven't even told them I'm proper replying.  Because people were previously banned for mere association I wanted to get that out of the way.  I acknowledge at some point I can still be held liable for my opinions because of my association, so I won't be replying anymore beyond this, and am okay with being banned again.  I accept that.  I just want SOMEONE to read this.

 The worst that would have happened was someone saw it and didn't use it and moved on.  The best was that someone who isn't privileged enough to have been given resources in their lifetime as you guys may have, may have used it in a heated moment.  FeralHeart is a game that caters to people who do not have people to turn to.  That is why FH and FHU have a userbase- albeit small- when all you can do right now is chat to people.  I mean I personally turned to feralheart because I was super lonely and people spread rumors about me and bullied me.  I mean not to sound pitiful, but you can't tell me this isn't a game that people turn to when they have little else to turn to, especially in 2020 when other free social games like fortnite, guild wars, star wars, and literally anything on the steam free to play list exist.
The reason I'm not letting this go when Sura was kind enough to issue an apology is for a few reasons.  The main one being I care for this community, and I don't think it should be co-headed by someone who argues over having something as simple and as mundane as a helpline thread up.  Second, because I just saw a link was removed after we JUST had a whole thing about censorship, and it was in pair with a genuine question.  A link was removed, but no answer to it given?  Next, your reasoning for not deleting user accounts is to uphold bans and maintain their IP ban.  This would be fair, if the users in question weren't unfairly banned in the first place.  They wanted to drop this whole thing and have their accounts deleted so as to move on to other things and leave you to your own devices, it feels like not deleting is a prideful thing, and a thing that can actually get you into legal trouble.  Fortunately for you, people care little to enforce law over a dusty corner of the internet, but forgetting that... its just wrong from a moral standpoint.

I feel like it's evident that this isn't about the existence of a thread, but rather the execution and reaction to it being questioned.  The fact that no one sees that this goes FAR beyond whether or not you should have deleted a thread is part of your festering problems.

moving on from that,


To Sura:
Thank you for your apology and for lifting my ban.  That was very kind of you.  I also thank you for bringing me onto the team to make the jungle map.  It meant a lot to me, and it still does, given how much I love this little game.  I apologize it fell through and I hope you gain another map maker for it if you haven't already.  I don't regret choosing to work for another team, since they have more elbow room and had a bit more communication.  I  think that original FH could have a lot more success if only there is more communication between all the developers to give them a sense of unity.  Having that sort of unity and room to also just chat with each other is really inspiring and lifts some pressure.   I thank you for talking to me and giving me input during the time I was working with you, but I have to say it was extremely intimidating.  I really think you guys could do with just... hanging out, chilling out, being friends with your community more.  They won't dogpile on you when things go wrong if you do that.  If you've been doing that lately then please forgive me for that criticism, I haven't been on for a week or two. I understand you have a job and task at hand before that, but it seems like for a long time that heavy enforcement has been the primary focus, and it doesn't need to be, especially with such a declining community.  This has created a rift, I know I'm not the only long time user who feels this way, and that rift snowballed into this situation and the unnecessary drama.  We have to admit it's silly at some point.  This is just a small little glorified chatbox, at the end of the day.
   I say this in front of people because I roasted you in front of people with the community comment, and I don't think either of us want that impression to stick and for it to only be acknowledged behind closed doors.  Hope that makes sense?  I also feel I might get banned again so I wanted to say something to you because I don't feel like making the effort to try and get unbanned, I'm frankly just tired.  I hope I don't seem insincere, but it felt less sincere in my eyes to just DM.
----

the best apology is changed behavior.  It's easy to be on the outside and think that all of this is silly and people can either take or leave the apology, when you aren't someone who was banned for essentially nothing from a game you've contributed free work, time, effort, probably even tears to.
The decisions can't be taken away, correct, but they can be reflected on.  It's really hard to look up to an administration that is so inconsistent, and before it's userbase too.  I may be moving on to other projects but the reason I comment and critique here is because my heart will still always lay with this one.

I will accept the apology, but not yet.  I will accept it with change, and with a link being immediately censored, I didn't see that.

I think I do speak at least here for FHU staff when I say that literally no one wants this to end more than us, but the reason we had such heavy public involvement is for the same reason we've created FHU which is because we care.  And also because it was just wrong, as pointed out and acknowledged already.  I don't think the game will improve if people who give critique or speak out are talked down to by fellow members for doing so, much less if they are banned.  I feel like that's less helpful than the critique, albeit some harsh, because critique is at least something you can work with and mold.
 That's an assumption of mine but I mean I can't say that at 20 years old I want to be writing out a forum post on a furry forum over avoidable drama.


As Zomb said, I really do wish you guys luck, I still love this game and I acknowledge it is the original.  I don't see a real rivalry between us because there's no reason to choose either or game except purely on personal preference, but I do think that the banning sort of re-affirmed that belief that there is a rivalry, and before our communities too which is just.. really sad, and something we can't take back when it happened before everyone.  It's hard to take that back even with an apology, you should realize. 
 We both want the same thing, we both want to give back to a community that has given us so much, let's remember that and move on as suggested.  I hope you make something out of this learning experience for the sake of this beloved little game.  Thank you for contributing your time to it as you have, particularly the staff who have been able to admit faults here.


quick edit: * I say banned again because I know that I can be seen as escalating the situation, which is fair, but it would feel more wrong to not say something and this is likely the last post I'm ever gonna make here so I wanted it to have some genuine thoughts on this for the staff to see coming from a user whose been here since 2011/2012.  I don't mean to automatically assume the staff will do the worst for no reason.))



Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: DylanCheetah on July 25, 2020, 05:19:40 am
It isn't easy for someone to admit when they have made a mistake. And the bigger the mistake, the harder it is. It's even harder when said mistake warrants a public apology. And sure, an apology doesn't just magically take away the whatever fallout the mistake caused. However, everyone makes mistakes. And it is times like this when we must ask ourselves "When I make a mistake, do I really want people to hold it against me for the rest of my life?" I have my doubts that any of you would like that. Which is exactly why we should not hold Sura's mistakes against her either.

And furthermore, I believe that the only sort of person who deserves to be asked to "step down" is one who does not apologize for their mistakes and try to fix what was caused by their mistake.

On a side note, I suppose we could all start following one another around the forum to remind them of every little mistake they make. But then wouldn't things get pretty chaotic around here as a result?
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: G4RG0YLE on July 25, 2020, 05:37:58 am
When working in a professional environment (although FH Staff Team environment isn't exactly the top tier of professional, but STILL professional) people are going to look up to you and pinpoint just about every step you take, regardless of whether or not it is a mistake.
No one can control what's held against them Dylan, that's not how life works. Otherwise if it were, the word 'hate' would co-exist. As would 'dislike' and 'distaste', crimes could be committed without anything done to prevent, because oh yeah... in the ideal world, no one wants to be hated for their decisions.
But working in a professional environment means we're much more likely to hold grudges. It's unavoidable. There is more emotional dependency on that person's shoulders coming from the people "beneath" them. So telling people to not hold a grudge is not a reasonable response, but that's just imo. If you do something wrong, you're going to be held accountable for those actions long-term and sorry will not always be the only thing required for people to move forward.

I don't get where your idea has come from to suddenly pull petty moves when creating such a scenario has 0 relation to what's actually going on, but whatever. You do you, but that doesn't justify any of what happened - from BOTH sides.
It sounds like you don't want things to be held against the Staff but would happily hold something against the community. Double standards, but maybe I'm misreading.
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: LadySigyn on July 25, 2020, 06:04:11 am
Sura, I've watched you grow ever since the day we met before you became staff. From the start you were kind, hardworking, loyal and a wonderful soul to be around. Same thing with Ressy. You've both been more-than eligible additions to the staff team from the beginning, and I wouldn't ever doubt your intentions. You've never given me a reason to doubt them, nor has my positive opinion on you two changed in the past 8 years. You and your work are incredibly underappreciated often because people can't see what you do behind the scenes, and all the little things that get done. I trust you, and I trust the rest of the team. We make mistakes, we're human. I admire you for your maturity in all of this, because although others see your actions as unjustified, I'm pretty neutral about it. Either way, apologies were given and I see no reason for things to be continued by either party.

Thank you for trying your hardest to make this a safe and positive place for us, staffers. I continously appreciate you and everything you do for the community. <3

Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: Hakumi on July 25, 2020, 06:34:47 am
In the end, I guess something is better than nothing.
While I do appreciate you guys coming forward about this matter, It still doesn't sit well with me, nor really proves anything in regards to your behaviours.

'FeralHeart simply does not want to be held responsible if a user doesn't get help.'
But technically you won't..? Unless someone here is going to actively try and give professional help when they themselves aren't a professional then I can kinda see what you guys' were trying to do... However, that's still not a good enough reason.
These hotlines, were used as a reference or some sort of guidance for those that are truly seeking help.. In no shape nor form would FH be held accountable for just trying point users in a direction if they were lost and seeking some answers..
If anything, it shows how much the community truly cares about their members' wellbeing.. and as pointed out, the fact that it took this long before its removal is questionable at best..



As for the apology made by Sura...
For starters, it's a very respectable and brave thing for you to do. Owning up to your mistakes and reversing the actions you had taken on these fellow members.. You didn't have to do it, period, but the fact that you did anyways should be noted.. and for that, I have some respect for you. But, it still wounded the trust and respect that a lot of members had for you.
As a Leader in another community I run ( albeit, differently operated in a sense ), if I had done what you did a few days back? I would've been removed from the team no questions asked or at least put on probation.. and truthfully, I think that should be done starting from here on out.


You revealed very sensitive information to the public.

You were very hostile and accusatory towards the members in questioned.

You let your emotions get the best of you and carried out in an action that wasn't even properly discussed nor handled with the rest of your team.

You basically acted alone.

You were entrusted with a very powerful role and with it, great power to do as you pleased... and you abused it.

Now, members are having strong, negative emotions when it comes to Staff and for the most part, they have every right to feel the way they do. Their feelings are valid.
When I first started out, I was naturally intimidated by Staff. Always worried about stepping on any toes or just being a pest for them just for swinging by and saying Hi.. But soon, as I started to realize that they're just another person behind the screens, who aren't so uptight.. I started to relax and even come to respect them.
And even now as I'm typing this out, I'm anxious and even worried that something in my post will get censored because I said something that someone on the team didn't like. But you know what? That's perfectly fine. We are allowed to agree to disagree and speak up.

So, while I'm grateful for all the team has done over the years whether it be for the community, themselves or even this game.. I won't just simply 'move past this'. Personally, and again this is just my opinion... but if Sura is going to remain on the team, they should be demoted on even on probation and actually prove how serious they are with their willing to renew themselves. What they did crossed so many lines and it's not right. A simple Sorry isn't going to cut it for me.. It may for some others but not for me..

I really do want to see this game thrive and be represented in a positive way with a welcoming Staff and Members.. but if actions like these.. caused by members with this much power gets treated this lightly and their punishments this tamed..?
I really don't see a bright and welcoming outlook for the future of this place.. and it breaks me even typing that out.
So for now, I can only hope and continue to find the courage to raise my voice when it matters the most..

Again, Thank you for at the very least addressing this..
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: DarkLustyHumor on July 25, 2020, 06:39:45 am
In the end, I guess something is better than nothing.
While I do appreciate you guys coming forward about this matter, It still doesn't sit well with me, nor really proves anything in regards to your behaviours.

'FeralHeart simply does not want to be held responsible if a user doesn't get help.'
But technically you won't..? Unless someone here is going to actively try and give professional help when they themselves aren't a professional then I can kinda see what you guys' were trying to do... However, that's still not a good enough reason.
These hotlines, were used as a reference or some sort of guidance for those that are truly seeking help.. In no shape nor form would FH be held accountable for just trying point users in a direction if they were lost and seeking some answers..
If anything, it shows how much the community truly cares about their members' wellbeing.. and as pointed out, the fact that it took this long before its removal is questionable at best..



As for the apology made by Sura...
For starters, it's a very respectable and brave thing for you to do. Owning up to your mistakes and reversing the actions you had taken on these fellow members.. You didn't have to do it, period, but the fact that you did anyways should be noted.. and for that, I have some respect for you. But, it still wounded the trust and respect that a lot of members had for you.
As a Leader in another community I run ( albeit, differently operated in a sense ), if I had done what you did a few days back? I would've been removed from the team no questions asked or at least put on probation.. and truthfully, I think that should be done starting from here on out.


You revealed very sensitive information to the public.

You were very hostile and accusatory towards the members in questioned.

You let your emotions get the best of you and carried out in an action that wasn't even properly discussed nor handled with the rest of your team.

You basically acted alone.

You were entrusted with a very powerful role and with it, great power to do as you pleased... and you abused it.

Now, members are having strong, negative emotions when it comes to Staff and for the most part, they have every right to feel the way they do. Their feelings are valid.
When I first started out, I was naturally intimidated by Staff. Always worried about stepping on any toes or just being a pest for them just for swinging by and saying Hi.. But soon, as I started to realize that they're just another person behind the screens, who aren't so uptight.. I started to relax and even come to respect them.
And even now as I'm typing this out, I'm anxious and even worried that something in my post will get censored because I said something that someone on the team didn't like. But you know what? That's perfectly fine. We are allowed to agree to disagree and speak up.

So, while I'm grateful for all the team has done over the years whether it be for the community, themselves or even this game.. I won't just simply 'move past this'. Personally, and again this is just my opinion... but if Sura is going to remain on the team, they should be demoted on even on probation and actually prove how serious they are with their willing to renew themselves. What they did crossed so many lines and it's not right. A simple Sorry isn't going to cut it for me.. It may for some others but not for me..

I really do want to see this game thrive and be represented in a positive way with a welcoming Staff and Members.. but if actions like these.. caused by members with this much power gets treated this lightly and their punishments this tamed..?
I really don't see a bright and welcoming outlook for the future of this place.. and it breaks me even typing that out.
So for now, I can only hope and continue to find the courage to raise my voice when it matters the most..

Again, Thank you for at the very least addressing this..
So much, this. This spells out exactly how I feel about this situation.
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: xSpirit on July 25, 2020, 08:11:04 am
GDRP Law/Deleting accounts
To set records straight regarding the apparent breach of the GDPR law.
Once a user is banned, we have the right to refuse the said account to be deleted.
This is because we are actively using that information to uphold the ban.
Once the ban ceases, the user is more than welcome to delete their account.

That is completely false.
According to GDPR you can only keep data after a deletion request in the following cases:

"-the personal data your company/organisation  holds is needed to exercise the right of freedom of expression;
-there is a legal obligation to keep that data;
-for reasons of public interest (for example public health, scientific, statistical or historical research purposes)"

Actively using the data to uphold a ban is not on that list as you can see.

Oh also..
"-If your company/organisation processed data unlawfully it must delete it. In the case of an individual, data collected when they were still a minor must be deleted."

Guess what? Most of the users in question WERE MINORS when the data was collected so you should have removed it without a question.

Learn more: https://ec.europa.eu/info/law/law-topic/data-protection/reform/rules-business-and-organisations/dealing-citizens/do-we-always-have-delete-personal-data-if-person-asks_en

Next time you post something about laws, please research it first.

Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: Dark_heart on July 25, 2020, 11:43:19 am
I'm so glad and proud of you, Sura. Everyone makes mistakes. You understand your mistake. We can forgive you long non-responding. As some people said, they haven't any piece of trust for you and… honestly understand that. Whole this situation was big tension, for everyone. So thanks for unbanning people.

However.

I do not agree with decision about removing helpine thread. When I was reading rules first time, you didn't know how much it warmed my heart. It's my opinion and it's fine If you don't agree, however, I think this thread would look good and professional for guests.

And just gonna say: reading this thread has helped me a lot.
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: Bloo. on July 25, 2020, 04:28:59 pm
You all know that I advocate for things returning to normal and for everyone to equally benefit from where we go from here. I love this community, always have and always will, however I feel the need to further explain the GDPR policy and how it applies here in terms of data erasure. I am doing this in a professional capacity and in no way intend for this to be an attack or rebuttal towards any individual or group of individuals.



The GDPR, or General Data Protection Regulation, is a set of laws enforced by the EU regarding the, as obvious, protection of your personal data.
The first, important thing to note here, is that the FH game and servers are run out of the UK, which seceded from the EU. Now, that does not mean the GDPR laws are null, it just means they are exercised slightly differently and are formally recognized as the Data Protection Act (2018) in the United Kingdom.
I only mention this so that we can reference the correct policies in regards to this particular game as they are written and enforced differently in some areas.

The main policy I would like to touch down on is the Right to Erasure, that is the right to request your personal data be erased, both up front as well as the termination of any back-ups of that data. Please see below image:
-
(https://i.imgur.com/hKVB7KS.png)
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You'll note that the first line mentions "GDPR", please remember that the GDPR does scope all of pan-European countries, it is the "umbrella" policy while the Data Protection Act details the UK's version of that policy.

In regards to the image above, you could argue that the first two bullet points alone are grounds enough to have your account deleted, and they are. If you are a member with no set ban on your account, you have every right to delete your account or have the FH staff delete it for you. Now this is where things seem to get a bit sticky. Please see below image:
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(https://i.imgur.com/7VKH8XT.png)
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In the image above, we are going to focus on the third bullet point. When FH staff sets a ban on an account, it can either be through username alone, or through IP address. In a professional sense and when correctly administered, the function of a ban is to prevent users who have broken game and/or forum rules from continuing their behavior and to act as a deterrent from continuing such behavior in the future. Putting aside the fact that bans were recently carried out in an unjustified manner, justified bans are meant to protect the community and ban length depends entirely on the fault committed. 

We, as staff, do have access to user's IP address, but only the ones linked to the account they registered with. We do not have access to anything more than your IP address and your email, both of which are used strictly for administrative purposes. We have your email so we can contact you if necessary, as well as if we need to find a user that may have changed their username or lost an account. We can access your IP address so we can ensure that bans placed on an account are not being evaded and so that we can make sure that other accounts connected to that banned account are locked down as well. The reason we hold the right to refuse a data erasure on a banned account is because, in erasing that account's data, we lose the IP address. This allows the user to create a new account and go on breaking rules. Simply said, we reserve the right to hold onto the data of a banned account as part of our duties as FH staff members to prevent people from harming the community in any capacity, ergo, the performance of a task carried out in the public interest.

FH staff never use IP addresses or emails associated with your accounts maliciously. When LordSuragaha posted the screenshot of a user's IP log, all traces of an IP address were blacked out. While it was in bad taste to share the screenshot to begin with, there was absolutely no intent of doxxing.
On that note, I feel it's also important to highlight one of the original rules that users agree to when they register for the game.
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(https://i.imgur.com/x5hTNRu.png)
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If you are having trouble reading the image above, you can find the rule Here (https://feral-heart.com/smf/index.php?topic=62886.msg912193#msg912193). I bring up this rule so that users are reminded that any account associated with one IP address are responsible for any other accounts registered with that IP address. If you and your sibling share a computer and your sibling gets banned, if the ban was done by IP, you are also banned. It's important to inform friends and family members of this rule so nobody is caught unaware and confused.



As far as this policy goes in regards to minors, the GDPR and the Data Protection Act use the term "child" and define this as an individual who is 13 years or younger. The same policies as stated above apply to children as well, though in a more relevant capacity as children may not always be aware of the risks when registering their data online. While this game is aimed at people of all ages, it's important to undertake certain precautions in order to protect the younger users. I, personally, will be working towards having a system implemented to better ensure that our younger users will be recorded so that data erasure isn't an issue in the future. However, as a system like that doesn't currently exist (and if you have a game where younger users may register, I would highly suggest you do this as soon as possible), there is no way to prove which users are or were 13 years or younger when they registered an account here.

I noticed as well that some users had mentioned COPPA law and the lack of it here at FH. While COPPA is a US law, it does apply to foreign hosted servers and websites if the host knowingly collects personal data from children in the US. This is something we will be looking into as it's very important to us that our younger users are safe.



If anyone has any questions or concerns regarding GDPR or the DPA, please contact me via PM. This is a news thread and arguments weren't meant to be had here.
 
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: xSpirit on July 25, 2020, 05:28:45 pm
"for the performance of a task carried out in the public interest or in the exercise of official authority" does not apply here. Deleting an account will not affect the public interest in any ways and the FeralHeart staff is not an official authority.

The assumption of only the UK version of GDPR applying is wrong in the first place, GDPR applies to all websites and applications which operate and have users from the EU.

The same is true to COPPA aswell. The law might only exist in the US, but FeralHeart actively operates and accepts users from the US so it applies to the game as well.

If you really want to escape all privacy laws you should block the whole US and EU. Then neither of the laws would apply.. That's a lie because the UK's version of GDPR is still there.

Oh and.. There is the fact that FH's privacy policy and terms of service is a huge mess.. And it doesn't comply by either privacy laws.
Second oh.. Where is the FH only accepts usere over the age of 13? The game letting users under 13 into the game introduces some huge privacy requirements..... However FH fails to meet those as well.


Months ago Raz told me he wont accept donations for legal reasons.. But you guys won't solve actually important legal problems, like fixing your PP and ToS?
I just want the users to be safe here but I see absolutely nothing done for that safety.
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: Bloo. on July 25, 2020, 05:33:50 pm
"for the performance of a task carried out in the public interest or in the exercise of official authority" does not apply here. Deleting an account will not affect the public interest in any ways and the FeralHeart staff is not an official authority.

The assumption of only the UK version of GDPR applying is wrong in the first place, GDPR applies to all websites and applications which operate and have users from the EU.

The same is true to COPPA aswell. The law might only exist in the US, but since FeralHeart actively operates and accept s users from the US so it applies to FH as well.

If you really want to escape all privacy laws you should block the whole US and EU. Then neither of the laws would apply.. That's a lie because the UK's version of GDPR is still there.

Oh and.. There is the fact that FH's privacy policy and terms of service is a huge mess.. And it doesn't comply by either privacy laws.
Second oh.. Where is the FH only accepts usere over the age of 13? The game letting users under 13 into the game introduces some huge privacy requirements..... However FH fails to meet those as well.

I think you may have missed some of what I'd said, or misinterpreted it. You're welcome to PM me concerning it and I'd be happy to discuss with you what you've pointed out here and revise my post accordingly. But as I'd said at the bottom of my post, this isn't a thread of argument or "back and forth" so that's where I'll leave it.

Note: I've looked into the COPPA laws and regulations and have revised my post as needed. I had originally used a couple sources for my statement regarding COPPA but they turned out to be misleading after investigating a little further into some more notable sources. I do apologize for the misinformation on my part.
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: DylanCheetah on July 25, 2020, 08:42:07 pm
When working in a professional environment (although FH Staff Team environment isn't exactly the top tier of professional, but STILL professional) people are going to look up to you and pinpoint just about every step you take, regardless of whether or not it is a mistake.
No one can control what's held against them Dylan, that's not how life works. Otherwise if it were, the word 'hate' would co-exist. As would 'dislike' and 'distaste', crimes could be committed without anything done to prevent, because oh yeah... in the ideal world, no one wants to be hated for their decisions.
But working in a professional environment means we're much more likely to hold grudges. It's unavoidable. There is more emotional dependency on that person's shoulders coming from the people "beneath" them. So telling people to not hold a grudge is not a reasonable response, but that's just imo. If you do something wrong, you're going to be held accountable for those actions long-term and sorry will not always be the only thing required for people to move forward.

I don't get where your idea has come from to suddenly pull petty moves when creating such a scenario has 0 relation to what's actually going on, but whatever. You do you, but that doesn't justify any of what happened - from BOTH sides.
It sounds like you don't want things to be held against the Staff but would happily hold something against the community. Double standards, but maybe I'm misreading.

To clarify, my point is that things aren't gonna improve until both sides can put aside their differences. Until then, things aren't going to improve. My post wasn't intended to be some sort of "petty move" with double-standards. It was my way of saying that we all need to put aside our differences. And I apologize if anyone misunderstood that.

And yes, there has to be accountability. However, I think that the whole "probation" or "demotion" idea would be more appropriate than a "you need to step down" sort of thing.

It is times like this when we need compromise from both sides.
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: Jango_Fett on August 02, 2020, 06:34:10 am
wack
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: Egritte on August 02, 2020, 02:50:37 pm
lmaooo this is such a deadbeat game full of toxic players and staff members. do yourselves a favour and delete this Removed by moderator. or bring back the old feralheart,the update was completely unnecessary ???
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: Egritte on August 02, 2020, 03:02:30 pm
and btw ban me if u want throw me in jail but y'all are perfectly aware how Removed by moderator this game turned out to be.. peace xoxo
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: Dark_heart on August 02, 2020, 03:50:57 pm
lmaooo this is such a deadbeat game full of toxic players and staff members. do yourselves a favour and delete this Removed by moderator. or bring back the old feralheart,the update was completely unnecessary ???
Maybe try to look on it from diffrent side - game still be deadbeat if we'll be still talking about "unnecessarlity" of updates. Easy way, nobody would join game where people are talking only about old maps. People left, but there were many other reasons - people got more years old, it's normal for any game. We can't play games forever. Also if staff would bring back them, what then? FH is so under-member, it wouldn't be as popular as it was.
Title: Re: To clear a few things up..
Post by: CrimsonCell on August 02, 2020, 05:14:33 pm
Thanks for this