-
This has been brought up many times during my stay in FeralHeart... I think it's time we talked about it seriously.
What does General do?
General Chat allows you to send and recieve messages from anyone anywhere in the map you are currently in, resulting in quite a useful chat for advertising and socializing in general.
Now let's look at what Local does...
Local Chat allows you to use the Lyp Sync feature and only send and recieve messages from people within range of you. Not so great for communicating but amazing for Role Playing.
Some things that I encountered...
Local is better for socializing.
My thought: I disagree... It limits the range of communication and that's less social. This has resulted in everyone gathering into just one spot of a map so they can read other people's messages, which has thus resulted in lag for anyone trying to go into said map.
General was abused and filled with trolls.
My thought: There's no denying it, you'll always have spammers and trolls. Want some advice? Do NOT say anything to them (Doing so is literally asking for trouble...); Just take a screenshot that shows the chat (Do NOT edit it!) and report them to a staff member (Be sure to be as detailed as possible!).
I miss General, it was great for advertising role plays.
My thought: It was great for two things and misconcieved as being meant for only one of them.
The Movie spam is real...
My thought: You can turn the Movie chat off very easily to allow yourself to see other messages from the other chats. This is, in my opinion, not as big a problem as people make it out to be. For that matter, the same can be said for EVERY other chat.
Extra thought: Sometimes they aren't even advertisements... hidden by an uninformative "has made a Movie Clip" message...
So... The big question is...
What does everyone else truly think/believe about this? Besides Spam/Trolling.
-
My whole thought on the General Chat is that, yes it WAS a hassle. Trolls and all that. But...you have trolls in local just as much as General so can you really use that excuse? It's why we have moderators. To watch the chats and take action when needed, no matter WHICH chat. Seriously if General was taken out just because of rowdy people and trolls...then shouldn't have local been removed as well on that argument?
I was actually looking through the thread from when General was shut down. Many people were upset and said there was a new silence in the maps they didn't like. And many people believe it was what started leading to FH becoming less active and truthfully I see it too. It makes sense anyway.
I think it would be worth a shot to bring it back, just for a little bit at least. See what happens. People are always complaining that people never talk. That FH is too silent. And with the fact that FH isn't near as busy as it was back in 2011-13 it should be WAY easier to watch. But also, it might spike activity a little. So maybe it's what FeralHeart really needs.
Just my thoughts on the whole matter.
-
#BRINGBACKGENERALCHAT2K17
Okay seriously,
I am 100% supportive of the resurfacing of General chat and I've been waiting for it to come back ever since it's demise (even when the chance had been pretty bleak). It honestly made the game more active and it made it easier to communicate with people. Sure there was arguments and trolls, but you can't just prevent people from talking to each other over long distances because you don't want to deal with an issue that can be prevented.
I remember the day when general chat was disabled from the game a few years back. The forums were a battleground. x.x
Some extreme actions were taken to ease the mess, but that only brushed it under the rug. Desperate times comes for desperate measures, I guess? lol
I hope this thread stays up.
-
General is useful on large maps. I have seen people use movie clips a few times in cherika valley for talking to their friends far away for lack of general, and once between bonfire and the mainland.
Like the others said, might be interesting to see what would happen if it was brought back.
-
Interesting Discussion.
Might thoughts about this? I think it would be a nice change in pace. I want to see how 'mature' Feral - Heart has grown since the fall of general chat. Sure, we will have trolls , spammers and the like, but I think the whole thing was brought down in the first place because as someone already said, it was pretty much abused and as a community, everyone had to pay the price. Sure it wasn't fair for those that were actually using it appropriately but we can't just favor certain people now can we?
At least we're able to still use general in custom maps, but not everyone can get into said custom maps and not everyone has those fancy computers that can handle such files. Seeing general back would be an interesting thing. It might spark some activity both good and bad,
nej doubt about it. If something gets out of hand though and it's just beyond all control, we're gonna get punished for it and general might not come back period. Sucks to say, but that's just how life can be. Even if a small handful were to report said spammers, what's gonna stop 'em from coming back again? Same thing for trolls, y'know?
But yeah, if ya don't like something then yeah, you can change the settings and turn off certain chats, yada ... But even if general did come back,
it literally depends on how engaging a person is in the game. You can say that it will help with adverts, but the person still has to do more if they wanna get out there and everything. Shoot, for all we know, if general comes back, it might make a difference for a little while but then it just dies and tapers off y'know? Yeah, we still have general but it all depends on the person as a whole, the community as a whole.. and how mature we can be about this if and when this feature kicks off again.
But my overall opinion on it, I mean it's fine and all, but I probably won't care too much because I would probably act the same and I know for sure I won't really use it all that much because of how I am as a person. But hey, more power to the ones that want it. Lol.
-
Well, the only issue I see here is that the 'difference' between general and local trolls is while trolls in local you can just walk away from, trolls in general span the entire map. Once they say something, there's no taking it back. Everyone in the map has seen it. Unless you feel like leaving the map, there's not many other options to 'instantly' stop them. But like said above, that's fixable via the handy dandy block button or reporting.
There's always going to be trolls, yes. That's a given. Some of those trolls have matured, and others not so much, and there's always new ones. But like you said, Hakumi, the news spreading that General chat is back? That'd boost activity. Now this might bring back some not-so-friendly faces, but at the same time, I think the amount of people on here would be taken up a notch. I'd really love to see General brought back; a lot of people would, though I guess this bit is a tad obvious. Maybe even bring it back for a 'trial run' for a week or so? Then depending on how it was used/misused, the final decision would be released with the next update.
Hearing that the game both updated, and general is back? Here come more names to the game, woot!
Just thinkin' aloud. Would be neat to see that green chat put back into play.
-
I'm happy to see a polite discussion thread about this, I've noticed a lot of times this topic can bit a bit heated, but I think it deserves a bit of discussion.
My opinion is to return it. General was much easier to advertise in compared to the often glitchy and limited movie clips. There was sometimes trolls, yes, but as a few people mentioned, all the other chats are littered with trolls too, especially Local. And the return of General would definitely give some older players the interest to rejoin and might even give a bit of a boost to Feralheart's reputation (I mean, there's no denying that the removal of general is a common complaint about FH, whether you agree or not.)
Ideally it'd be best to change how General works---limits on amount of posts, filters to reduce spam, etc., but since we don't have the source code, I don't believe this is a possibility. I still think General can work in the state it is right now, as long as the community helps to keep it clean and to ignore/report trolls.
(Apologies if my post is a bit rushed or all over the place, I just woke up :P)
-
Thank you all for keeping things calm and for your contribution to this discussion so far.
@Azura
I was not around back in the days of General, but considering the videos I've watched and what I've heard others say about the activity comparison between then and now, it is quite interesting to see how something that seemed insignificant has affected the game and its community so greatly.
@WolfQueen
I have no doubt about the battleground thing... and if General does get revived, there's sure to be confusion after so much time has passed with the previous adamant attitude of keeping it disabled. In the end, it all depends on how well those that are confused will be able to understand it.
@Kuri
Using Movie Clips for long distance chat instead of whisper/party/group? Oh my goodness... xD
@Hakumi & @Edolicious
I would also like to see how well the current community can cope with the General chat and you are absolutely right about the community needing to play its part.
As for the bit about rule-breakers simply returning... It's been pointed out several times that players can easily block or report them. Rules are rules; They exist for a reason. I'll recap this bit since it's very important "the community needs to play its part." by helping the staff help you, which helps them. =)
>>
I agree that if people learned that a feature they liked was brought back, they'd probably come back to check it out, along with the other new stuff. There will likely be a period of time after the update where, if people learn about it, there will be a huge spike of activity until things smooth out and those that came because of news decide to either leave or stay based on their judgement. Let's not be fooled by that possible spike of activity, if General is brought back then it will likely have to be watched (and monitored, without that it'll all go south...) for an extended time to properly judge it. If things go well and the confusion mentioned above can be straightened out, I don't see an issue even if the use of General fades away. As it stands now, Local fades to silent during the morning hours my time but can easily become active again with the help of a nudge.
@Torskite
I happen to agree with General being easier to advertise in, it provided an up front method of showing others what you have to offer, rather than having others guess and watch several movie clips that might not even be advertisements. Let's not forget that it can be used for long-range public socializing as well. =)
-
Tbh, bringing General Chat back will not do FH any good, and things will go back to the way they were. However, if the General Chat had a different use, then it could be a whole different story. It could have the soul purpose of advertising.
If "General Chat" was changed/renamed to "Advertisements", it wouldn't be a repeat of the general chat previously. The only trolls would be the ones looking for trouble or doing it to harass or irritate others. Just thought that should be something to keep an eye out for, and it would be a different alternative to General Chat, but at the same time the Chat would have it's use and it will separate advertisements and chat in general. People could switch this off too, so if they wanted to have advertisements away from local, it would be more cleaner for them too.
Simply shown below:
Renaming
(https://orig00.deviantart.net/4ed3/f/2017/008/c/6/new_canvas_by_bawfle-daupzzs.png)
Box Resizing
(https://orig00.deviantart.net/b460/f/2017/008/a/6/new_canvas__2__by_bawfle-dauq52y.png)
Preview
(https://i.imgur.com/rfvVLga.png)
The Issue
(https://orig00.deviantart.net/4ece/f/2017/008/3/b/new_canvas__4__by_bawfle-dauq5cg.png)
The only issue is presented in the final image, that cannot be changed without the source code, I don't think.
-
@Bawfle
Thank you for contributing.
I can not really agree or disagree with your claim about it being no good, nor can I be certain that it will be a repeat of previous events as I was not around when it happened and we have many helpful paws to keep things in order.
>>
General is more than just an advertisement chat, just as Local has been used for the same purposes, to socialize and advertise. but with far less effectiveness due to its limited range.
The idea was interesting to read though. =)
-
If General chat was put back, roleplaying would become difficult due to the sheer amount of posts that will push the roleplay posts away as I don't think that absolutely everyone knows how to disable General chat, and so frustration may arise; There could be help threads asking how to turn off General chat for roleplaying.
Some people are unable to download custom maps and therefor will be unable to get away from the chaos that is General Chat.
-
@FlyingGrass
Spread the word!
"See that little arrow between the chat boxes? Click on it and now you know how to disable/enable the chats!"
Or if it is on the forum, we have Valhayes to thank for a wonderful chat features break-down that we can easily direct others to:
https://feral-heart.com/smf/index.php?topic=62221.0
It's that easy. :D
-
"See that little arrow between the chat boxes? Click on it and now you know how to disable/enable the chats!"
The FlavourText.cfg can include that tip, that'll spread the word.
-
Oh, I didn't claim that it would be no good. General chat was a great tool of communication and advertisement. There's no doubt.
However, I stated that it'd do
FeralHeart no good. One of the reasons being the trolls who will likely abuse this chat once again for attention or just for the sake of looking for trouble. As well as the lack of interest a lot of staff had in the past to even moderate the chat in general as it was apparently too much to keep up with. However, I can strongly agree with is this point made and I honestly think it should be something staff should consider listening to:
My whole thought on the General Chat is that, yes it WAS a hassle. Trolls and all that. But...you have trolls in local just as much as General so can you really use that excuse? It's why we have moderators. To watch the chats and take action when needed, no matter WHICH chat. Seriously if General was taken out just because of rowdy people and trolls...then shouldn't have local been removed as well on that argument?
Even though the chat was irritable in many ways, I feel it'd just need either adjustments in Moderation, or to change the chat around in general, as shown in a possible General Chat to Advertisement modification as I shared above in my previous post.
In terms of change in moderation, perhaps using the Mod Speak/Red Text in order to drop reminders of General Chat's use. Such as "Reminder: The General Chat's use is for Advertisements and out-of-range Conversation, if user re-location in a map is not a possibility". Something along the lines of that I'd imagine. If necessary, "Mod Spammers will be kicked". This was an issue with General Chat whenever the Mod Speak/Red Text was used.
People may thing this isn't necessary, maybe just for a few weeks, but obviously new users will be expected to arrive, so constant/often reminders would be needed whenever the chat isn't being used the way it is expected to.
Hopefully I sound more clearer.
-
@Bawfle
What you pointed out in Azura's post has been pointed out in various ways and is one of the main things in this dicussion:
As for the bit about rule-breakers simply returning... It's been pointed out several times that players can easily block or report them. Rules are rules; They exist for a reason. I'll recap this bit since it's very important "the community needs to play its part." by helping the staff help you, which helps them. =)
It's why we have moderators. To watch the chats and take action when needed, no matter WHICH chat.
as long as the community helps to keep it clean and to ignore/report trolls.
But yeah, if ya don't like something then yeah, you can change the settings and turn off certain chats, yada ...
So yes, I fully agree that the staff should be aware of this. =)
-
Of course. Users can block these trolls and misbehaving users, but this doesn't always solve the problem all round. When users come back every day or frequently to spam the chat and troll users or abuse the use of general chat overall, certainly more action is needed or more and more users will be encouraged to mimic the same behavior of others and we'd be back at square one where General Chat is given the good bye card.
I suppose I'm saying it needs a little more control or guidelines.
-
Yes, the community can do their part and all, but will the staff be able to keep up, that's the thing.
The staff has to be ready and check nearly every map possible in order to monitor general chat. We can send in reports after reports,
but the time they probably see it, the issue would've either been over or the trolls / spammers have moved on. Hopefully we'll have more staffers that will be on whenever the activity is at its highest, especially around the holidays to monitor the chats and the maps as well. If we can get an increase of that, we can probably prove that we as a community ( at least the good noodles ) are taking this matter seriously and want this feature to stay. I agree with Bawfle on the matter that a slight changing / reminder on what General is used for would be a great idea. I think it does seem necessary because with the announcement of General's return ( if possible ) will nej doubt spark old and new interests and it can be abused very easily, very quickly. For me, I rarely see MOD speak since a few times in the past because of how feral-heart is now and it's pretty tame / manageable where it's not needed.. But something like this, it would be a nice little thing / reminder.. Better clarification pretty much.
But that's just me. We as a community do need to work and function more together as a whole. We may have moderators to monitor and watch the chat as Azura stated above, but are they able to keep up, mentally and even physically with that sort of spike? Because nej doubt they're gonna have to probably get back into that sort of groove again because of this and they need to be prepared for sure. But we have a nice little community and eager members that would probably do whatever they can to keep this feature going ~ c:
-
@Bawfle & @Hakumi
Oh, I don't mean to say that anything will be a sure-fire cure for anything... It would certainly take some getting used to... I am saying that the staff will surely need help (being a small team currently, especially if there are even more official maps) from anyone willing to help. As FlyingGrass pointed out earlier:
"See that little arrow between the chat boxes? Click on it and now you know how to disable/enable the chats!"
The FlavourText.cfg can include that tip, that'll spread the word.
This can also be used to say something like "General chat is not meant for spamming/trolling" and the signs thing in Lonely Cave (perhaps the signs could actually be in the cave (or really close to the spawn point), so there really would be no missing them?) could be used for it to. As well as a possible reminder not to abuse General chat.
About the staff being swarmed with reports... Yeah, that'd be an issue. Another issue is one staff member potentially getting all of them... There was something brought up before as a means of allowing the staff to receive the reports (and suggestions) in a way that allowed reports to be sent without picking any single staff member, perhaps this could be made in some way to allow any staff member to see the reports all in one place? Here's another thread by Valhayes: https://feral-heart.com/smf/index.php?topic=61971.0
It was also pointed out that that too could potentially be abused and used for the wrong purpose though...
-
I think it does seem necessary because with the announcement of General's return ( if possible ) will nej doubt spark old and new interests and it can be abused very easily, very quickly.
With this being said too, whether General chat is brought back or not, if General chat's return is announced in a thread of it's own or with other news, then it'd be good to share the update for a week or two via mod/god speak so users can actually get to the reason why it was brought back. Generally doing this for news updates for a week or two after they've been posted would have the community more informed in the goings on in FH. The mod/god speak doesn't have to just be for warnings in out of control situations, but could also be used for user announcements in-game too. Users would just have to get used to seeing the text, other than using it for rare occasions when it's needed to control an out of control chat.
But then again, I'm a tiny bit off topic at the end part there..
-
@ VortexAlive Ah, thanks for directing me to that board, haven't seen it yet since my return o:
I do agree and disagree with some of those points about a certain member getting swamped... but at the same time, maybe if there was more available staff members around than what there is now, that could be beneficial and also help with the whole general chat / reporting sort of thing.
Maybe a trial run might give them an idea on how well this goes.. And they'll be certain a bit whether or not it'll be a good idea for it to be officially implemented or not.
@ Bawfle My thoughts exactly, but I didn't know if that'll be a bit off - topic or not but thanks for the input, Lol. I think a nice little reminder for the first 2 weeks maybe or even after a few days after registration is opened ( since it still a rare occurrence give or take ) would be nice as well. Some don't always dive into the forums but a nice update on the thread too will also be nice and players can just be redirected there instead while still being informed in-game also.
-
Well, I am pleased to see that this topic has so far been quite civil; I'll try and endeavor to keep it that way.
I personally found general chat was a good way to connect to people across maps. While I do not think that lag has spiked up as a direct result of the removal of the chat (and people sitting together in larger groups), I must find myself saying that I favored it over Local. I don't know quite why, but that's how I felt.
Now, as for the removal of it, well, I can't say that I envied the choice that had to be made by staff, but I feel like the complete removal of it was a tad drastic.
Again, I risk sounding like a broken record, but the source code would have helped to filter and restrict General chat to a more manageable size, among other things.
Am I sad it's gone? Yes. Can I do anything about it? Obviously not, but such is life, so I don't spend much time mourning it.
Edit: removed the whole tangent I went off on in the spoiler. Felt like it didn't quite tie into the post, not to mention that I was describing flamers more than trolls as per definition of dictionary.
-
Doubt this will count as a necro since it was last posted on within the last week-
To be completely honest, the answer for why general was removed to me is complete nonsense.
As someone who's moderated websites, chatrooms, and servers/games all chats will be a hassle, but that's a fact of life. Removing it just pushes that into the remaining 'channels' and makes your workload not as spread out.
General was basically an 'OOC' chat or a 'Global' chat, and the only times it ever got out of hand to my memory was when someone spammed or some conversation spiralled into the abyss.
But, the community at least back then was capable of self-moderation and it was mostly peaceful.
If you didn't like seeing General all the time you could very well turn it off.
I say bring it back. It'd be nice to just be anywhere in the map and still talk to people instead of having to be in the main hub to find anyone.
TL;DR Trolls will exist and persist no matter what you do.
Bringing it back won't change the grand scheme of things, it'll just be another chatting channel.
-
Thank you for bringing up this topic, Vortex!
General had no restrictions, cool-down periods, or lexicons. In a game such as FeralHeart, such massive chat will simply not work. Our Staff have real lives, too, as well as other maps to monitor. The chat was truly a strain on the game, even if it was fun for socialization and good for advertising.
General chat was originally designed from the game's predecessor, Impressive Title, and made to handle around 20-30 users in one map at a time. Not over 300 per map.
There are only 5 staff members (at the moment) to enforce the Game Rules. Even with a userbase willing to screenshoot and report rule-breakers, there will always be rule-breakers who manage to slip through the cracks. The discussion has long been dead, and there's no good in bringing General back without any adjustment or modification.
-
General had no restrictions, cool-down periods, or lexicons. In a game such as FeralHeart, such massive chat will simply not work. Our Staff have real lives, too, as well as other maps to monitor. The chat was truly a strain on the game, even if it was fun for socialization and good for advertising.
This is true for local too, not just General. Ever since General was disabled everyone gathered at one place to socialize on local (e.g. Stonebridge). It was a replacement that functioned just like general chat but at a restricted range (which I can assume was harder to manage).
General chat was originally designed from the game's predecessor, Impressive Title, and made to handle around 20-30 users in one map at a time. Not over 300 per map.
There are only 5 staff members (at the moment) to enforce the Game Rules. Even with a userbase willing to screenshoot and report rule-breakers, there will always be rule-breakers who manage to slip through the cracks. The discussion has long been dead, and there's no good in bringing General back without any adjustment or modification.
I'm gonna be honest with you. Moderating a chat isn't that hard, no matter the population of players. The FH player population is actually pretty small compared to most MMOs with a free chat. Not everyone talked via General back in the day ether, and most of the text posts were advertisements. There was a 5 member average actually socializing at a time.
I don't think General can come back unless Razmirz changes the part of the source code he owns anyways.
-
I'm gonna be honest with you. Moderating a chat isn't that hard, no matter the population of players. The FH player population is actually pretty small compared to most MMOs with a free chat. Not everyone talked via General back in the day ether, and most of the text posts were advertisements. There was a 5 member average actually socializing at a time.
I don't think General can come back unless Razmirz changes the part of the source code he owns anyways.
Precisely.
I've dealt with chatboxes that had sometimes up to 50-120+ people talking in it off and on on the daily, and it was.. Not difficult at all.
Granted, that's a chatbox and not a game.
However, moderating a game and the chat that is attached to it is just part of the duty of an administrator or a moderator.
If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
FeralHeart gets, what, less than 120 players on at peak hours daily? And roughly that on the weekends? Maybe?
Only time this would be a small issue is when it's winter or summer break, but even then... It's just being attentive. Even then, reports are sent in for a reason.
-
120 on landing zone maps.. 400-600 online but most of them appear to be on private maps. It's true! i went exploring and found people n the most random of old abandoned places. No idea what they were doing there though, well, the greenscreen ones i know what they were doing.
But yeah.. 120-130 in the grounds is about the most i see.
-
Even with reports, the matter would've already died down and then some of the reports wouldn't be very useful unless it's to observe some of the players or the severity of it all.
Without general, the chats to be frankly honest are more easily monitored because you have that cluster of people in one location...
Unfortunately, depending on people's timezones, schedules, ( especially for moderators and such ), it can be quite troublesome at times.
Not gonna lie, General wasn't nearly as bad but that's how people hand things and this was before I ended up making a whole new account altogether, but even then, a chat doesn't have to be hard to monitor if the Mods , community did their part as a whole.
They could spread out more and maybe spend a bit of time on each map and such and that would be that.
To be honest, despite subtle changes for the game other than the update, the community has come a long way whether we want to acknowledge it or not, so monitoring a chat overall won't be as difficult. I do agree though with the statement above, the only time it might get overwhelming is during the holidays and or breaks and that's when the monitoring needs to be at it's maxed. Easier said than done, but we do have people that's willing to put in the time and effort to keep general running smoothly if it ever does return. We have some mature floofs on here that knows better and of course, we have the trolls, but that's usually what happens with any site.
I apologize in advance if this seems all over the place, my thought process is faster than my typing even if I were to reread it. Heh..