Feral Heart
Game & Forum Discussion => Game Discussion => Topic started by: Wyldercat on August 12, 2017, 07:27:57 pm
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There is a pretty large scale problem in our community, as well as in so many others throughout the internet, in regards to how "insane" characters are designed and used as villains. This may be a bit of a sensitive topic for some, myself included, and I apologize for the harsh tone, but I feel as though this issue needs to be addressed.
We all have evil characters. Whether they be a dark cult leader, a vicious aberration, or a foul entity seeking vengeance on the living. There is nothing wrong with characters like this. They can make interesting chess pieces in a plotted story, or make for a much different narrative in a story. Popular media such as Silence of the Lambs or Suicide Squad and their fandoms often bring up characters like this in a more positive(?) light, as well as the villain-was-right-all-along stories and spinoffs. Even a serial killer or rage blinded madman can be a tasteful antagonist if written properly. This post is not in reference to these types of characters, however. The issue lies largely in misinformation, stigmas, and harmful stereotypes.
Now, mental issues, especially where I live, are unfortunately treated very poorly. Society always works that way, but let's not get too political. To jump to the point, many villains are undoubtedly coded as, or explicitly stated as having some kind of neurological ailment or neurodivergent characteristics. This is kind of skeevy as is, but it becomes worse with misinformation. Every day I see at least one character built along the basis of "xe's insane and evil! they snap and kill anyone who would touch them for no reason because xe's insane and evil!!!," just as an example. This is an issue for several reasons. One, it's a bit lazy to just use insane as an "evil" trait without giving any sort of backstory or reason why. Two, many people may not realize this, but several mental illnesses or neurotypes have an issue with touch. To be more specific, it is often associated with autism, which is treated with an awful stigma even by well-meaning people. As someone who is mildly present on, and knows many people on the spectrum, I know firsthand that many people are not ok with being touched by strangers, or without permission. Reactions to this are usually a request to remove the touching body part, or a withdrawal/wince away from it, but in some more severe cases, a more physical reaction, such as hitting a hand away. I highly doubt that references to this in the example have any kind of deliberate malice to them, or that someone would even be aware of the correlation, but it does not make it okay. Not only does it feed into the stigmas behind the autism spectrum (which I could go on for pages about) and similar classifications, but it can make someone diagnosed with this kind of issue very uncomfortable should they read the description. Nor is it limited. Even developed disorders such as anxiety or depression, and the handling of a character's suicide feeds into the same issue. Especially since we have such a diverse community, this can be very triggering (triggering as an actual psychological term by the way) to many people.
PTSD and similar trauma disorders are also pretty poorly treated a lot of the time. Yes, many people experience the trauma through violent flashbacks and can become destructive, but just to write them being reminded of their trauma and going on a rampage is not the right way to go about it. Like I said before, neurodivergent and mentally ill people experience enough trouble in daily society, seeing negative depictions of their illnesses such as the "xe was nice but their family was killed and now xe's psycho!!! xe's gonna get flashbacks and kill you!!" just makes things worse. Again, not only is it a lazy and exhausted trope, but is kind of ignorant and contributes to detrimental stereotyping.
Similarly, LGBT or racially coding villains or tyrants also presents a huge issue if they're the only character of that demographic in a plot or group, but that's a rant for another day. (Although if you have opinions on this, this could also be discussed in replies or pms)
I could give countless examples of this, but, this post is becoming long as it is, so I'll just leave the above paragraphs on that topic. But, hopefully you can see what I mean by this now. This doesn't mean that you can't have mentally ill characters, however. It's actually really cool to see good representation of this kind of stuff. It's just when the representation becomes harmful. Again, most of it is kids and teenagers making their edgy OCs for the sake of fun and have no ill intents, but, it's still the issue of people not knowing how to properly create and handle these characters respectfully. Insane-type characters can still be played without even bringing in diagnosed conditions as a safer alternative. For instance, instead of a "psycho XD murderer who turned evil bc hes crazy," perhaps a respectful young character was possessed by some sort of foul entity that used its vessel to carry out it's wicked desires. Maybe they had lived their whole lives in desperate isolation, knowing only to kill or be killed and have a hard time shaking off their instincts among others. Maybe they're just a selfish sadist with no concern for life. There's tons of tasteful archetypes for villains and antiheroes without bringing in harmful stereotypes.
Sorry for the long post, but I do feel like this is a substantial issue and I wasn't sure how I could abridge it while getting all my points across.
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Oddly enough, I was actually thinking about a topic very similar this morning. And I agree with you 105%. Just too many people making characters like this and just....not going about it the right way. Even if they don't mean to cause harm it's...well it can be hurtful to some when they're seeing someone just playing around as such.
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One of my characters was socially awkward, over time i noticed she was exactly like an autistic girl i know, "active but odd" variety, so i decided she had mild autism. Only one person i know didn't like this very much.
Fits her character perfectly though.
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Maybe they're just a selfish sadist with no concern for life.
Wow, you've just described Vespian in eleven words, haha.
On a more serious note, I do understand the point you are trying to make. However, Vespian must stand on the side of opposition when it comes to the declaration of, "this is an issue and we must do something about it," as I have picked up from your starter post.
Vespian has dabbled in psychology for some good years. Most if not all of my characters are burdened with some kind of mental infliction. Vespian's a sociopath with paranoia, Hermesiel struggles with PTSD, Yusei has exhibited symptoms of Chronic Depression, etc. and if you were to realize, everyone, every person on this good Earth, is troubled mentally in some shape or mannerism. Some a bit more than others but troubled regardless. It's what makes us as flawed as we are for we are not of the perfect gods. I digress.
When I see a character or characters harboring the, I agree, overused diagnosis of Dementia, Psychosis, Split Personality Disorder, etc., more often than not they could have done more extensive research as their portrayal of the disorders irks my infamous OCD. However, I don't immediately label them as an issue to be offended by for most individuals who role-play your shamefully classic, "XD My character's a serial killer! Watch out because if you so much as look at her wrong, she'll rip your lips off!!!1!!11!" are or can very possibly be quite young and just trying to play it cool by being the villain.
I know I used to be one of the latter. Believe it or not, but when Vespian was of the tender age of 12-13, I was quite possibly the edgiest of them all. I would role-play a big, bad wolf named Hatred (full name: Lucifer Leviathan Hatred) who'd sulk all day and threaten everyone by night. He was haunted by a demon dubbed The Puppeteer, which later passed to Vespian version 2013-2015, and he had the diagnosis of Psychosis. Another character in my edge days was another wolf named Famine (full name: Death's Famine).
At the time, I thought I was the cool cat with the best characters ever made. I was so proud of my boys. I know that if I suddenly had someone openly criticizing my characters, I'd feel quite hurt and crushed. That's the reason why I always hold my tongue and silence my OCD when I see such characters nowadays because I know that they are acting almost exactly how I once acted all those years ago. They have yet to learn as I have and gradually come to know the sensitivity behind such disorders.
I am aware that there is a borderline between being harmless and being harmful. Harmless, in my perspective, is just users having a bit of fun. You've mentioned how a user warning others not to touch their character because they wish not to be in any physical contact can be offensive towards those with autism. At least, that's what I have read. I, bluntly, don't see the offense.
Ignorance isn't always a bad thing. Heck, that's what Vespian's eyes symbolize: The dangers of seeking to be all-knowing (or all-seeing). Thus, I wouldn't be so quick to defend. You might end up offending those you seek to protect since most individuals don't read too much into character behavior unless it is written out for them. They might end up feeling called out and pinpointed when they merely seek to carry on with their hobby of playing the game.
I mean not to shove you down or have my words articulate themselves as forceful, I'm just trying to get my own point across. If a user ever feels uncomfortable for whatever means, they always have the right and the permission to speak up.
Harmful, in Vespian's eyes, is when a user makes a character meant to directly and purposefully bash some disorders which is rare in of itself as I have yet to witness any user doing the like. Most characters of oddity derive from young players just wanting to play the role of the bad guy as they perceive that role to be. Innocent misguidance, harmless ignorance.
It will never hurt for one to offer advice or tidbits, however, to those who do have such characters. I receive the likes from my friends all the time to help me better get a grasp on what hinders my characters and each of their demeanor. Be careful not to come across as, "You're wrong and I am right, you must do this and this and act this way and that way," for as the saying goes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and you wouldn't want to thieve that away from the user prone to listening.
Everyone has the right of making their character the way they want that character to be. Sure, we might not always agree with it but so long as they are causing no harm, Vespian cannot find a reason to bare my fangs.
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Maybe they're just a selfish sadist with no concern for life.
Wow, you've just described Vespian in eleven words, haha.
On a more serious note, I do understand the point you are trying to make. However, Vespian must stand on the side of opposition when it comes to the declaration of, "this is an issue and we must do something about it," as I have picked up from your starter post.
Vespian has dabbled in psychology for some good years. Most if not all of my characters are burdened with some kind of mental infliction. Vespian's a sociopath with paranoia, Hermesiel struggles with PTSD, Yusei has exhibited symptoms of Chronic Depression, etc. and if you were to realize, everyone, every person on this good Earth, is troubled mentally in some shape or mannerism. Some a bit more than others but troubled regardless. It's what makes us as flawed as we are for we are not of the perfect gods. I digress.
When I see a character or characters harboring the, I agree, overused diagnosis of Dementia, Psychosis, Split Personality Disorder, etc., more often than not they could have done more extensive research as their portrayal of the disorders irks my infamous OCD. However, I don't immediately label them as an issue to be offended by for most individuals who role-play your shamefully classic, "XD My character's a serial killer! Watch out because if you so much as look at her wrong, she'll rip your lips off!!!1!!11!" are or can very possibly be quite young and just trying to play it cool by being the villain.
I know I used to be one of the latter. Believe it or not, but when Vespian was of the tender age of 12-13, I was quite possibly the edgiest of them all. I would role-play a big, bad wolf named Hatred (full name: Lucifer Leviathan Hatred) who'd sulk all day and threaten everyone by night. He was haunted by a demon dubbed The Puppeteer, which later passed to Vespian version 2013-2015, and he had the diagnosis of Psychosis. Another character in my edge days was another wolf named Famine (full name: Death's Famine).
At the time, I thought I was the cool cat with the best characters ever made. I was so proud of my boys. I know that if I suddenly had someone openly criticizing my characters, I'd feel quite hurt and crushed. That's the reason why I always hold my tongue and silence my OCD when I see such characters nowadays because I know that they are acting almost exactly how I once acted all those years ago. They have yet to learn as I have and gradually come to know the sensitivity behind such disorders.
I am aware that there is a borderline between being harmless and being harmful. Harmless, in my perspective, is just users having a bit of fun. You've mentioned how a user warning others not to touch their character because they wish not to be in any physical contact can be offensive towards those with autism. At least, that's what I have read. I, bluntly, don't see the offense.
Ignorance isn't always a bad thing. Heck, that's what Vespian's eyes symbolize: The dangers of seeking to be all-knowing (or all-seeing). Thus, I wouldn't be so quick to defend. You might end up offending those you seek to protect since most individuals don't read too much into character behavior unless it is written out for them. They might end up feeling called out and pinpointed when they merely seek to carry on with their hobby of playing the game.
I mean not to shove you down or have my words articulate themselves as forceful, I'm just trying to get my own point across. If a user ever feels uncomfortable for whatever means, they always have the right and the permission to speak up.
Harmful, in Vespian's eyes, is when a user makes a character meant to directly and purposefully bash some disorders which is rare in of itself as I have yet to witness any user doing the like. Most characters of oddity derive from young players just wanting to play the role of the bad guy as they perceive that role to be. Innocent misguidance, harmless ignorance.
It will never hurt for one to offer advice or tidbits, however, to those who do have such characters. I receive the likes from my friends all the time to help me better get a grasp on what hinders my characters and each of their demeanor. Be careful not to come across as, "You're wrong and I am right, you must do this and this and act this way and that way," for as the saying goes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and you wouldn't want to thieve that away from the user prone to listening.
Everyone has the right of making their character the way they want that character to be. Sure, we might not always agree with it but so long as they are causing no harm, Vespian cannot find a reason to bare my fangs.
I'm glad we can agree to disagree here.
Although I do stand by my original post, I do agree with you to an extent. I too started off with a lot of "edgy" insane characters. Dr. Twisted in hindsight, for example, played off of a lot of disorders, which I even took to even naming in her bio. As this character was a tad... eugenic in her original roleplay group (which is kind of... risky in and of itself), I honestly wince a bit when I think back to her, but in the days of making her my main, I too would have taken great offence in criticism. I absolutely could have clarified this better in my original post, but my intentions were not to bring this up to newer players, but rather more mature players who would understand as to how this can be a delicate subject to not do one's research, or to remind that a lot of these disorders are very real things for people to have and should be treated as what they are as opposed to being a villainous trait as they are often used. I'll admit, I am no expert on the matter, but media is a passion of mine, and it's a shame for me to see this kind of thing being popular. Also not to encourage or enforce confrontations, but to rather state what thoughts I've been bottling over the years for whomever may read from it and see my point of view. My intentions were in no way to state this was the only view either. I am curious what other people have to say on the subject, as well.
I agree that it is usually young people who make these kinds of characters, and it usually is in harmless fun. It certainly isn't an urgent issue, but just a change myself and others may like to see in the quality of characters with mental illnesses or traits of such illnesses, which I also could have clarified better. In addition, I personally am not offended by these characters either. Many can leave a bad taste in my mouth, but I meant more to emphasize the potential that someone could be offended or offput by it.
In hindsight I can definitely see the tone issue as well, and I apologize if I came across as too condescending. My intentions in the original were to more state my viewpoint on how this could be an issue, but I do stand by my belief that this as a trend is not entirely healthy, and the poor use of illnesses as a trait can lead to some more harmful views, or if published, can feed into harmful stereotypes.
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Maybe they're just a selfish sadist with no concern for life.
Wow, you've just described Vespian in eleven words, haha.
On a more serious note, I do understand the point you are trying to make. However, Vespian must stand on the side of opposition when it comes to the declaration of, "this is an issue and we must do something about it," as I have picked up from your starter post.
Vespian has dabbled in psychology for some good years. Most if not all of my characters are burdened with some kind of mental infliction. Vespian's a sociopath with paranoia, Hermesiel struggles with PTSD, Yusei has exhibited symptoms of Chronic Depression, etc. and if you were to realize, everyone, every person on this good Earth, is troubled mentally in some shape or mannerism. Some a bit more than others but troubled regardless. It's what makes us as flawed as we are for we are not of the perfect gods. I digress.
When I see a character or characters harboring the, I agree, overused diagnosis of Dementia, Psychosis, Split Personality Disorder, etc., more often than not they could have done more extensive research as their portrayal of the disorders irks my infamous OCD. However, I don't immediately label them as an issue to be offended by for most individuals who role-play your shamefully classic, "XD My character's a serial killer! Watch out because if you so much as look at her wrong, she'll rip your lips off!!!1!!11!" are or can very possibly be quite young and just trying to play it cool by being the villain.
I know I used to be one of the latter. Believe it or not, but when Vespian was of the tender age of 12-13, I was quite possibly the edgiest of them all. I would role-play a big, bad wolf named Hatred (full name: Lucifer Leviathan Hatred) who'd sulk all day and threaten everyone by night. He was haunted by a demon dubbed The Puppeteer, which later passed to Vespian version 2013-2015, and he had the diagnosis of Psychosis. Another character in my edge days was another wolf named Famine (full name: Death's Famine).
At the time, I thought I was the cool cat with the best characters ever made. I was so proud of my boys. I know that if I suddenly had someone openly criticizing my characters, I'd feel quite hurt and crushed. That's the reason why I always hold my tongue and silence my OCD when I see such characters nowadays because I know that they are acting almost exactly how I once acted all those years ago. They have yet to learn as I have and gradually come to know the sensitivity behind such disorders.
I am aware that there is a borderline between being harmless and being harmful. Harmless, in my perspective, is just users having a bit of fun. You've mentioned how a user warning others not to touch their character because they wish not to be in any physical contact can be offensive towards those with autism. At least, that's what I have read. I, bluntly, don't see the offense.
Ignorance isn't always a bad thing. Heck, that's what Vespian's eyes symbolize: The dangers of seeking to be all-knowing (or all-seeing). Thus, I wouldn't be so quick to defend. You might end up offending those you seek to protect since most individuals don't read too much into character behavior unless it is written out for them. They might end up feeling called out and pinpointed when they merely seek to carry on with their hobby of playing the game.
I mean not to shove you down or have my words articulate themselves as forceful, I'm just trying to get my own point across. If a user ever feels uncomfortable for whatever means, they always have the right and the permission to speak up.
Harmful, in Vespian's eyes, is when a user makes a character meant to directly and purposefully bash some disorders which is rare in of itself as I have yet to witness any user doing the like. Most characters of oddity derive from young players just wanting to play the role of the bad guy as they perceive that role to be. Innocent misguidance, harmless ignorance.
It will never hurt for one to offer advice or tidbits, however, to those who do have such characters. I receive the likes from my friends all the time to help me better get a grasp on what hinders my characters and each of their demeanor. Be careful not to come across as, "You're wrong and I am right, you must do this and this and act this way and that way," for as the saying goes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and you wouldn't want to thieve that away from the user prone to listening.
Everyone has the right of making their character the way they want that character to be. Sure, we might not always agree with it but so long as they are causing no harm, Vespian cannot find a reason to bare my fangs.
I'm glad we can agree to disagree here.
Although I do stand by my original post, I do agree with you to an extent. I too started off with a lot of "edgy" insane characters. Dr. Twisted in hindsight, for example, played off of a lot of disorders, which I even took to even naming in her bio. As this character was a tad... eugenic in her original roleplay group (which is kind of... risky in and of itself), I honestly wince a bit when I think back to her, but in the days of making her my main, I too would have taken great offence in criticism. I absolutely could have clarified this better in my original post, but my intentions were not to bring this up to newer players, but rather more mature players who would understand as to how this can be a delicate subject to not do one's research, or to remind that a lot of these disorders are very real things for people to have and should be treated as what they are as opposed to being a villainous trait as they are often used. I'll admit, I am no expert on the matter, but media is a passion of mine, and it's a shame for me to see this kind of thing being popular. Also not to encourage or enforce confrontations, but to rather state what thoughts I've been bottling over the years for whomever may read from it and see my point of view. My intentions were in no way to state this was the only view either. I am curious what other people have to say on the subject, as well.
I agree that it is usually young people who make these kinds of characters, and it usually is in harmless fun. It certainly isn't an urgent issue, but just a change myself and others may like to see in the quality of characters with mental illnesses or traits of such illnesses, which I also could have clarified better. In addition, I personally am not offended by these characters either. Many can leave a bad taste in my mouth, but I meant more to emphasize the potential that someone could be offended or offput by it.
In hindsight I can definitely see the tone issue as well, and I apologize if I came across as too condescending. My intentions in the original were to more state my viewpoint on how this could be an issue, but I do stand by my belief that this as a trend is not entirely healthy, and the poor use of illnesses as a trait can lead to some more harmful views, or if published, can feed into harmful stereotypes.
I am legit cooking while typing this so pardon if the following response is a tad bit vague in any given paragraph. I don't wish to burn my food.
I thank you for further explaining yourself as the clarification has left me stepping closer to the other side of the fence.
The audience of youth or fresh faces aside, I can agree with you a little bit more. It would be of interest to come across characters of such disabilities that are not portrayed as the antagonists. Quite the challenge it would be but it would leave Vespian impressed as even Vespian, the character, is thought to be of antagonistic given his abusive tendencies and sociopathic attitude. Of course, he means not to act in such a way. He just does for that is how he was raised in the Blackwood family.
My guess is that they are portrayed as such because it is easier to do so than it would be portraying them as the protagonist. However, this contradicts my belief of there being no such thing as good or evil. It all falls down to one's morals and perspectives. That's a different subject.
The way one writes the character can be of influence, as well. As seen with Vespian, he does not purposefully mean to be bad- he just is and it is because of that, he's thwarted into the role of a villain or anti-hero whether I want it to be so or not.
While it would be nice, I, too, will continue to stand by my former post more or less. Me guesses I'm a tad bit more lenient than others and that's what makes well-written characters so special to I when I come across them.
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I, for one, like how you articulated your point. I don't think it was too harsh at all. However, I do see Vespian's point.
This is a problem of ignorance. Mental illness has been around for ages, but I feel like only recently have people been exploring and trying to understand not only mental illness, but the human psyche. And as progressive as this community is, there is still much to be done in order to understand fully these issues.
This stigma around mental illness can be very damaging. But, as I stated above, it is born of ignorance. By educating those that are willing to listen and being respectful overall, I think that maybe some people's ideas of what mental illness is will begin to change. Even creating a character that is an accurate representation of mental illness could open minds.
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I personally don't see a problem with the general concept of it, however, I do agree with you on that I dislike the typical "x is insane and can turn into a murderous raging psychopath if you just look at him funny". For me personally, I prefer characters with faults in them. I think it adds more color and depth to their personality. All of my characters I have made have some fault whether it be physical or mental somewhere in them: Cobalt suffers through PTSD, Ace is partially mute, and so on. Personally, I take a long time just thinking and roleplaying to develop how my characters will behave (I spent up to 2 years crafting and forging Cobalts personality and how handles his insanity), and it often leaves me thinking more about how they would react in all kinds of different scenarios I can think of.
All in all I just think that you have to go about the right way of implementing it into your characters personality, and even researching a little bit the effects of the fault/disability you are giving them. I still will say again though that I really kinda dislike the typical "x is a psychopath and will kill you for no reason what-so-ever".
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This is why I keep a very subtle display of illnesses with my characters back in the day and even now. Sure, Bacchus does showcase repressed memories and amnesia, but that's not the only problems he has and I keep private small notes on how exactly he would act/react with many, many situations so that I display the illnesses he has in my role-play correctly via sciences and experiences told by some of my friends whom have been diagnosed by mental health doctors.
Mental illnesses should not be a reason that your character is "good" or "bad", and serious actions your character does while not being mentally well shouldn't be excused because of those illnesses. Also, considering how in wolf-role plays we do not have mental health medics (a goal I'm striving to create.) we can't exactly display more serious mental health illnesses that may need medication to be contained properly, in the correct format. In groups- a mental illness like depression or schizophrenia, or hallucinations is something that would run rampant without correct diagnoses and applicants.
I don't think it's exactly right to role-play more serious mental health illnesses in time periods where mental health specialists are not available. Because, without them, we do not exactly know how to describe how it would be without doctors to control it. If there was a medic specialized in keeping the sanity of their members stable, then I think it would be reasonable. However, it would be even harder to role-play a mental health specialist than a body medic because mental illnesses are still being developed treatment-wise and the body has more history behind its' research and because of having more research better diagnoses can be made about body illnesses rather than mental ones.
Without proper research, a character can snap from morally grey (some things are okay compared to morally whites' opinions) to morally black (everything is okay to do, including murder and other things) in an instant. These kinds of characters' personalities are unstable, and always shifting depending on whom they are talking to (since we subtly add a bit of our own favoritism when interacting with another characters' person.). If you aren't careful and don't /heavily/ research into the topics you want your character to suffer from, you're going to do them wrong and then it will be a huge mess to fix with everyone involved- or you'll have to give up on the character.
Also, "spicing up" and adding depth to characters isn't how you should mess with mental illnesses. They're used because something went wrong in a characters' life, not because you simply want to make your character more interesting. If you do them because you want to add depth to a character, then what's the background on why they have this illness; and why are you making it the focus of the characters' personality? If you want to make your character more interesting, add extreme detail into how they would react with such and such topics (religion, past experiences, personal opinions) depending on the relationships with these people and these people (their sister, lover, best friend, or loathed rival). A straight, mentally healthy character can be turned into something amazing if they are done right with a lot of love packed into them.
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People making characters with bad backstories and of poor quality is something that's been happening since before FeralHeart was even thought of.
Taking action against this will only alienate players, since if we can't have characters that have mental issues being portrayed as bad in any regard, that's gonna cut off a lot of people.
I say just shake your head and ignore it or maybe try to teach the person respectfully what the illness actually does. Or just show them some sources so they can do proper research.
A good example of this is that not too long ago I had a character who was a former heroin addict. I researched like a madman to keep it accurate but I didn't sugarcoat what the addiction had done.
Sure, addiction isn't the same as a mental illness but there's no reason to have it be exclusively a bright side.
Mentall illness does terrible things to the human mind, and those who love that human mind.
Sometimes that illness will drive people to do terrible things, sometimes it won't. It all depends on that person's character.
Let the kids have their fun, it's not going to do much in the long run.
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People making characters with bad backstories and of poor quality is something that's been happening since before FeralHeart was even thought of.
Taking action against this will only alienate players, since if we can't have characters that have mental issues being portrayed as bad in any regard, that's gonna cut off a lot of people.
I say just shake your head and ignore it or maybe try to teach the person respectfully what the illness actually does. Or just show them some sources so they can do proper research.
A good example of this is that not too long ago I had a character who was a former heroin addict. I researched like a madman to keep it accurate but I didn't sugarcoat what the addiction had done.
Sure, addiction isn't the same as a mental illness but there's no reason to have it be exclusively a bright side.
Mentall illness does terrible things to the human mind, and those who love that human mind.
Sometimes that illness will drive people to do terrible things, sometimes it won't. It all depends on that person's character.
Let the kids have their fun, it's not going to do much in the long run.
Again, I never mentioned not letting people create mentally ill characters. I quite welcome the idea, and myself have several characters with mental ailments. I never intended to have this as a "you can't do this thing" type of thread, but rather to state my opinion on the matter and encourage people to do their research. As described in previous responses, the topics discussed, with the thread itself being 13+, was never meant for younger audiences at all. Kids should be allowed to make OCs as they please so long as it respectful. I'm not expecting a 12 year old to read up on psychosis for their wolf rp character. I don't wish to retype my statements, but a quick view up can quickly clarify this.
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People making characters with bad backstories and of poor quality is something that's been happening since before FeralHeart was even thought of.
Taking action against this will only alienate players, since if we can't have characters that have mental issues being portrayed as bad in any regard, that's gonna cut off a lot of people.
I say just shake your head and ignore it or maybe try to teach the person respectfully what the illness actually does. Or just show them some sources so they can do proper research.
A good example of this is that not too long ago I had a character who was a former heroin addict. I researched like a madman to keep it accurate but I didn't sugarcoat what the addiction had done.
Sure, addiction isn't the same as a mental illness but there's no reason to have it be exclusively a bright side.
Mentall illness does terrible things to the human mind, and those who love that human mind.
Sometimes that illness will drive people to do terrible things, sometimes it won't. It all depends on that person's character.
Let the kids have their fun, it's not going to do much in the long run.
Again, I never mentioned not letting people create mentally ill characters. I quite welcome the idea, and myself have several characters with mental ailments. I never intended to have this as a "you can't do this thing" type of thread, but rather to state my opinion on the matter and encourage people to do their research. As described in previous responses, the topics discussed, with the thread itself being 13+, was never meant for younger audiences at all. Kids should be allowed to make OCs as they please so long as it respectful. I'm not expecting a 12 year old to read up on psychosis for their wolf rp character. I don't wish to retype my statements, but a quick view up can quickly clarify this.
I was just expressing my own interpretation of the situation at hand.
Not entirely sure why the 13+ was brought up but I won't question it.
Respectfulness is a fairly subjective thing, but I understand why you think the way you do. I just happen to disagree.
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Mental illnesses... quite the topic. I'll start by saying that I'm not a psychologist, nor do I have any professional experience with this. I just enjoy learning about things like these from books and studies I've read, so take that as you will.
First, let me say that I agree with you about the representation of neurologically divergent people. The media often over sensationalizes crimes committed by people with mental illnesses, which subsequently leads about a third of the american population to believe that these people are dangerous (statistics vary depending on which study you read. About 60-80% of people believe that schizophrenics are violent, while 45% believe that people with major depression are dangerous).
To jump to the point, many villains are undoubtedly coded as, or explicitly stated as having some kind of neurological ailment or neurodivergent characteristics.
I'm not sure what you mean by "coded", but in this context, I'll assume it means "presented as". While that may be true for some villains, we also see the hero with a savior complex quite often (which in of itself might be another neurological divergence, yet nobody seems to have a problem with that).
In storytelling, the hero always ends up meeting their shadow (the villain), which embodies characteristics opposite of them. The shadow serves to show what the hero could have become had they taken a different path / been subject to different circumstances / had a different perspective on life. Because they're usually the opposite of the hero, they tend to embody opposite roles. The hero may be the golden boy, the good sibling, the favorite, the kind, etc. while the shadow ends up as the problem child, the troublemaker, the misunderstood, the excommunicated and so on.
Because conventional storytelling follows this formula, it's not uncommon to see the above roles played out. And usually it's not with the intent of mental illness behind it either.
I am also curious as to why people automatically see stereotypical behaviors and assume that "presented as" = "is". Doesn't that speak volumes to one's own assumptions? There is a theory that proposes that when engaging with others, there are 3 "people" present in a person. One is the person as others see him, the second is the person as he sees himself, the third is the person as he really is. Therefore, "person as others see him" =/= "person as he really is", unless it's a flat character.
Two, many people may not realize this, but several mental illnesses or neurotypes have an issue with touch. To be more specific, it is often associated with autism, which is treated with an awful stigma even by well-meaning people. As someone who is mildly present on, and knows many people on the spectrum, I know firsthand that many people are not ok with being touched by strangers, or without permission. Reactions to this are usually a request to remove the touching body part, or a withdrawal/wince away from it, but in some more severe cases, a more physical reaction, such as hitting a hand away.
Hitting a hand away is a far cry from snapping and killing someone over a touch. I highly doubt anyone associates that with autism. I think that when most people say "They're / You're insane" they picture someone who's out of their mind, acting violent and erratic, instead of pinpointing to a specific disorder.
Similarly, LGBT or racially coding villains or tyrants also presents a huge issue if they're the only character of that demographic in a plot or group, but that's a rant for another day.
If someone is roleplaying a villain character and that character happens to be trans, why is that bad? Minorities are not devoid of any wrongdoings just because they're a minority. This shouldn't even be an issue; what matters about a character is who they are, not what they are.
For instance, instead of a "psycho XD murderer who turned evil bc hes crazy," perhaps a respectful young character was possessed by some sort of foul entity that used its vessel to carry out it's wicked desires. Maybe they had lived their whole lives in desperate isolation, knowing only to kill or be killed and have a hard time shaking off their instincts among others. Maybe they're just a selfish sadist with no concern for life. There's tons of tasteful archetypes for villains and antiheroes without bringing in harmful stereotypes.
By your own standards, wouldn't a demon possessing someone end up somehow depicting people with dissociative identity disorder in a bad light? Why are sadists any more tasteful to use for villains? Most sadists are unlikely to act in a way that would be criminal or dangerous where such behavior is met with social disapproval or punishment, unless they suffer from co-morbidity with another disorder.
Over-using psychopathy to fuel violent characters is also distasteful, if we're going to look at this in the same way as the rest. Contrary to what many people think, most psychopaths aren't criminals. In fact, many of them are successful businessmen, firefighters, surgeons, etc.
What about most of the cluster B personality disorders? Antisocial, Borderline and Narcissistic are all usually seen as villainous traits. Not to mention how often someone with narcissistic traits is shown as an abuser, tyrant, buffoon or with their head up their -you know where-.
If we start limiting how somebody can act with a character in order to avoid offending specific groups, then we'll soon end up with very restrictive rules. People can't be shielded away from negative representation forever. On top of that, I think that someone's intentions should be judged, instead of what other people interpret those intentions as.
I fully support the idea of getting the news media to stop sensationalizing mental illnesses when reporting on crime cases, but I cannot agree that people creating fictional works or characters begin sidestepping to unspoken rules in order to avoid offending others when that wasn't their intention in the first place.
Pardon for this rather long post, but I felt like I should voice my thoughts on this. An interesting topic to be sure, and there are definitely bound to be disagreements.
Edit: The theory of 3 people present in one had nothing to do with Cooley's looking glass self theory. I mixed up two different things. Changed the text to reflect that.
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I agree. people use mental illnesses and disorders as a sort of one-and-done with their characters. Not only is it a problem of ignorance, it's often a product of lazy character creation. SO many times have I seen a character whose entire essence is just "evil" or "insane" or "depressed/anxious". Mental illness does NOT define a person, and it should NOT define your characters. I'm not against such traits at all and I'm here for all the creativity, but PLEASE, if you're going to include disorders like this, please do your research and don't treat it like its just a quirk.
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I agree with this post. I don't even speak freely about my run-ins with mental health, and yet I feel like some of these people who create these insane, evil characters discuss it way too much, whether in RP or out of character. At this point, I consider it a warning sign of someone who has stereotyped mental illnesses. I believe it to be a harmful thing, because at some point impressionable people are exposed to characters like this, and they end up with this mindset that mentally ill people are violent and/or aggressive. Now, in FH, it seems like an epidemic. Having a mental illness doesn't even make a character evil, as I suspect these kinds of people believe. They just want an evil character. It's possible to have an evil character who isn't mentally ill.
However, I don't want to discourage anyone from having genuinely thought-out characters with accurate portrayal of mental health issues. In fact, I'd support that. Anyone who asks me about my problems in a decent way, because they're curious or for research purposes, will get an answer. My idea is to guide someone who is stereotyping towards a better solution - understanding why the character is the way they are, what contributed to their illness (genetic or environmental), and the more accurate reactions to stimuli.
This is a very interesting post, one which I agree with quite a bit. Thank you for sharing it.