Author Topic: Let's have a talk about censorship  (Read 16438 times)

ShaaBAM

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Re: Let's have a talk about censorship
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2020, 03:12:55 am »
Ok so wait is staff gunna say why they took it down or? So far what I'm reading theres nothing- even though they're commenting, theres no real excuse and that leaves me worried o.o

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Re: Let's have a talk about censorship
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2020, 05:36:30 am »
the response to this by sura is really disappointing and upsetting. i've been a major lurker for a long time, but i still see the same out of proportion responses to genuine concerns about the actions of staff members of this game.

it's honestly really sad to see that nobody can bring up a problem without being censored. i thought maybe the staff would've been better at this eventually. this isn't how you moderate a community who have very genuine and valid concerns about things like this. it shouldn't matter who the poster is, the helplines for mental health is important regardless. even then, there's no room for being petty and removing a thread from someone you don't like, regardless if it's raz. you can't use personal bias as reasoning for banning or removing threads, it's nothing short of abusing your staff privileges. it's upsetting and inappropriate to use Birdie's former MOTS status against her as well.

i'm honestly tired of seeing the same things being brought up with no change and only coming to this same point. this isn't stirring a pot - it's genuine concern for an actual issue. there's a way better response to having your issues pointed out than this.

To keep coming back here and stirring up things that have been long gone for god knows how long? You think this is going to fix anything at all?

this honestly really irks me. these things haven't been long gone, this has been a consistent issue with staff in particular. it never really went away. a chance to change it is speaking up about it. it's not on the community that the staff isn't willing to change it and instead sura bans people for pointing out their censorship and poor staffing practices in the past.

people have been silenced from speaking up about it, and here we are. fh is dying, and part of the issue is the staff's treatment of the community and raz's inability to let the game grow. sura's response to it was petty at the very least and just the fact of being banned and silenced for speaking out about it is censorship - she's proving the entire point.

there's honestly way too many issues revolving around the staff team to the community itself; lack of transparency, inactive staff, censorship, etc. etc. it's sad, how it's gone on so far. i've played this game since 2011, it's my only source of communication with people and unfortunately it's gone downhill to the point where i can't bring myself to do much else than work on maps or tab out in game.

i wanted fh to get better, but we can't even speak against staff without an out of proportion response that can be solved in a much simpler and more peaceful way. you can't moderate a community this way. this isn't brought up because we don't care, if it wasn't cared about we'd say nothing and let it stay the way it has been. and that's not good or sustainable for a game that isn't what it once was.

if you're trying to grow a community as the game does, the staff needs to grow as well. a community won't grow if they're being moderated by staff who can't grow past their mistakes and do better about them. i'm just saying, the game won't grow if you won't.

things don't improve if it's not brought to light, it'll keep staying the same if it's not talked about. if it's not changed after being brought up, it's not on us, it's on the receiving end. they made the decision not to change and continue making the same mistakes. unfortunately, this has happened here multiple times. if things had changed before, we wouldn't be here talking about it again because of another instance of the same actions. it could be raz, it could be sura or some other staff member, but either way, it still happened again with no change or accountability for it.

and that's, disappointing.

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Re: Let's have a talk about censorship
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2020, 07:35:25 am »
Unactive staff? As I know Sura, Spicy, or ANY staff member they'll come here. And TALK. No, like everyone thinks staff is very bad, unactive, only block and remove, blah, blah, blah. Have look on feedback - SpicyDirt wanted do good thing, but of course our community made another drama. I know, everyone want transparency, but If you wanna talk about it, make thread. And let staff talk with you, then they will.

I don't know situation with Birdie. Excuse me? I said I don't know THIS situation? I don't know any Damn dramas there. Y'all don't see what's wrong? Open your eyes and look. Not only you and your censorship and transparency problems excist. Everyone says game is dying. Why? 'Cause newcomers are leaving. Why? 'Cause we're talking about damn dramas.

Also, Sura, make this psychical thread asap, feel like I'll need it, lol. (And not sure am I joking.)

Try to think - maybe problem isn't only in staff? Maybe it's you?

I feel like I'm standing in The Grounds and screaming. Why you grab dramas to fight with staff? Why you see only yourself? And MAYBE people who agree with you? Why you don't wanna just talk with staff? Why you're only trying to scream louder than try to TALK?

We all want answers… but from expirience I know that we'll hear only false whispers.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 07:55:59 am by Dark_heart »
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Laarikin

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Re: Let's have a talk about censorship
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2020, 08:00:07 am »
It's not about drama, people have genuine concerns about certain things and when voicing them being silenced is often a solution for some reason. Everyone makes mistakes but if you're going to silence those who point them out and genuinely want to help you with them, then you're not helping anybody.

On this topic alone, a majority of the people who replied here were banned without any reason at all. None of the rules were broken, some of the people banned hadn't even said anything or participated in this thread or any others. They just came online and got a big fat "You're banned" on their computer. With the way things appear to be run right now, I don't see why anyone would want to play come play this game in it's current predicament. Who wants to play a game and constantly fear that you'll be banned for literally nothing, or simply saying that you disagree with something. Sorry, but that isn't right at all. I think staff can improve I really do, but with the behavior being displayed and the way things were handled clearly screams things need to change. Otherwise the game will die either way.

If we didn't care about the game or the people playing and running it, then nobody would say anything.

Hecc the only reason I've waited so long to respond is because I was afraid of the staff banning me for expressing my opinion. I'm still afraid, I don't want to lose this game for something as simple as expressing opinion. But staying silent changes nothing.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 08:02:51 am by Laarikin »

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Re: Let's have a talk about censorship
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2020, 08:17:39 am »
It's not about drama, people have genuine concerns about certain things and when voicing them being silenced is often a solution for some reason. Everyone makes mistakes but if you're going to silence those who point them out and genuinely want to help you with them, then you're not helping anybody.

On this topic alone, a majority of the people who replied here were banned without any reason at all. None of the rules were broken, some of the people banned hadn't even said anything or participated in this thread or any others. They just came online and got a big fat "You're banned" on their computer. With the way things appear to be run right now, I don't see why anyone would want to play come play this game in it's current predicament. Who wants to play a game and constantly fear that you'll be banned for literally nothing, or simply saying that you disagree with something. Sorry, but that isn't right at all. I think staff can improve I really do, but with the behavior being displayed and the way things were handled clearly screams things need to change. Otherwise the game will die either way.

If we didn't care about the game or the people playing and running it, then nobody would say anything.

Hecc the only reason I've waited so long to respond is because I was afraid of the staff banning me for expressing my opinion. I'm still afraid, I don't want to lose this game for something as simple as expressing opinion. But staying silent changes nothing.
Agree in part.

However.

We can talk more calmly. If you saw other's repiles, you saw some fulled of attack. And sorry, but these banning reasons are fine. Wouldn't be mad If Sura would delate this thread. More, I would completly agree with her. We can talk calm. We can talk normal  people. Not like... like animals.
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Re: Let's have a talk about censorship
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2020, 12:05:07 pm »
I will agree, some things about this I don't really like. I feel as if x's thread should not have been removed. At all. Birdie did make a good point. But what I'm talking about that irks me is the fact all these other players came on saying stupid childish comments and just stirring things up. Instead of just, acting like mature people, they came on more or less picking at the staff and making a huge joke out of this.

That is the problem. Something happens in the community and where is everyone's target? The staff. Even when they actually TRY to do anything, it's not good enough for anyone. They literally CAN'T do some things. And people don't understand that. They just feel content coming on here and making fools out of themselves while trying to persecute the staff here.

We all wish things could be different here. For heck's sake, the STAFF THEMSELVES think things should be different. But they can't change things when the one person in charge of said things won't let them. It isn't their fault.

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Re: Let's have a talk about censorship
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2020, 01:10:26 pm »
Can I just say:

I bet 5$ that staff will reply with "We cant control Raz".

oof size: large

this time on "how to not run a community"

posting in an epic thread

sura is a bee

the fact that people are getting banned for either looking at this thread or commenting on it is really just,,,
a sign of mismanagement on the staff's end
this is why, when polled, your community said that they didn't trust y'all. bye i guess LMAO

yeepers.....

These comments should not have been made, whatsoever. They contribute nothing to the purpose of this thread and are, matter-of-factly, just pokes in the ribs @ Staff to cause drama and try and provoke a reaction to try and force answers. This is not how we, as part of the Feral Heart Community, should be dealing with situations like this. While yes I do not agree with the removal of a very innocent - benevolent thread - I think it's rather outrageous of the extent some of you guys have gone to 'get your point across' in a not-so-nice way. Some of these comments are not even to get your points across, but to be petty about actions happening towards you. Which I owuld also like to add, I do not agree with either! Yet disagreeing with it doesn't give anyone a right to then make further, unnecessary comments that don't benefit a problem we're trying to solve or a question we're trying to find answers to.



As for this:

"AppleCider" aka Birdie,

The thread you speak of was deleted by Razmirz. None of us staff (admins or moderators) deleted the thread or even know why it was deleted.





In the future do not lie to perpetuate a false narrative. It's not becoming of a former MOTS of the Feral Heart Community or anyone in general.

We will be recreating a new thread with helpful guidelines and information for those seeking help.


Regardless if Birdie was the same person as AppleCider, there is no need to have an underlying tone following the lines of 'It's not becoming of a former MOTS of the Feral Heart Community or anyone in general.' This seems to be coming from a place of frustration yet, it also seems very unprofessional to me. Perhaps I'm misreading this and correct me if I am. However, if a member of the community were to speak like this they'd be banned for it and/or spoken to in a PM, so this is just double standards. The thread could have at least been locked and AppleCider PM'd if THIS is how you're going to approach the matter. A reaction like this should be expected if that's how you treat people, is all I'm saying.

But...

why does a new thread need to be made?

The thread xSpirit posted was very informative and helpful, as simple as it was. If the Staff really had an issue with it, then the least you guys could have done as a team was work towards revamping it rather than a new thread altogether.
Could it be because of the drama between FHU and FH? Who knows, but from my perspective it's almost as if Raz would rather have a new author of the thread so xSpirit won't be praised for doing the original helpline thread, now that he's gone forward with FHU and has a very genuine Staff team behind him. He'd rather have a member of his own team take the credit. I doubt I'm the only one that thinks that either, now that Sura has stated "we're making a new one" even though it's completely unnecessary and quite frankly, unfair treatment towards Spirit - who took his time to make that thread in the first place.There was nothing wrong with it and nothing can prove otherwise.
As hinted earlier on in this thread, it's just a sign of pettiness if my observations are true.



Unactive staff? As I know Sura, Spicy, or ANY staff member they'll come here. And TALK. No, like everyone thinks staff is very bad, unactive, only block and remove, blah, blah, blah. Have look on feedback - SpicyDirt wanted do good thing, but of course our community made another drama. I know, everyone want transparency, but If you wanna talk about it, make thread. And let staff talk with you, then they will.

I don't know situation with Birdie. Excuse me? I said I don't know THIS situation? I don't know any Damn dramas there. Y'all don't see what's wrong? Open your eyes and look. Not only you and your censorship and transparency problems excist. Everyone says game is dying. Why? 'Cause newcomers are leaving. Why? 'Cause we're talking about damn dramas.

Also, Sura, make this psychical thread asap, feel like I'll need it, lol. (And not sure am I joking.)

Try to think - maybe problem isn't only in staff? Maybe it's you?

I feel like I'm standing in The Grounds and screaming. Why you grab dramas to fight with staff? Why you see only yourself? And MAYBE people who agree with you? Why you don't wanna just talk with staff? Why you're only trying to scream louder than try to TALK?

We all want answers… but from expirience I know that we'll hear only false whispers.


To rhetorically ask if it's the members who are the problem is rather... I don't know what word to put to it, but that's not right.
Sure, the community have said and done things just as unnecessarily as Staff. But if it's obvious that it's not mostly the community that is the issue, statistically speaking.

You say making a thread will encourage Staff to talk. Well, it hasn't always been this way.
This thread has literally been made to highlight the fact that Staff (or Raz, really) has been archiving threads which defeats the purpose of users wanting to talk to Staff.
This. Is not. Right.



Something happens in the community and where is everyone's target? The staff. Even when they actually TRY to do anything, it's not good enough for anyone. They literally CAN'T do some things. And people don't understand that. They just feel content coming on here and making fools out of themselves while trying to persecute the staff here.

While Raz refuses to speak to the community himself the majority of the time, of course fingers will be pointed towards the Staff instead. They are the next level down to the Server Master and are deemed responsible for the communications between themselves, Raz and the community. Sometimes, we don't even get an answer from them either, so by that point who are we supposed to turn to for answers? We're humans, we all like to know what's going on - secrets being held and answers being avoided causes rigidity and a sense of 'something is wrong'. So we start bickering. The more things are kept away from us for unjustified reasons, the louder the community will get.
Of course there are some things we don't need to know. However, for something as sweet as offering help when we are at our lowest - we as a community, are OWED an explanation as to why the helpline(s) have been taken away from us.
That's like person A putting up a poster about where to get help if they get injured. It's up a few months, person B actually gets injured but when they look for that nearby poster, it's gone. Why? What are they supposed to do now? Then why they cry for help, the people surrounding them are all like "Oh, nah Person A is stinky so we got rid of it and will do our own version in several years' time because we have other priorities. Soz, you'll just have to deal with the injury yourself, lol."

???



Just my two cents.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 02:33:53 pm by Scallywag »

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Re: Let's have a talk about censorship
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2020, 02:25:53 pm »
In this case, both sides are acting wrong. Sura acted too impulsively and some people came to joke. This is pretty wrong as previous users stated. Sura, you should have though more the situation to handle it right and for users, joking about this is not funny, you should act more maturely and talk like it is a real matter. It is possibly pressure that makes people act without thinking and that was what Sura did which was made by the fact that some started to joke about this. Handle this right ya'll. Thank you.

I feel pretty bad with this about being deleted, though I don't know what is happening between some users and staff and hope that fixes. Still, it was wrong because it helps many people with their problem and the thread should have left alone.
 
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 02:27:39 pm by QuietMacaroni »

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Re: Let's have a talk about censorship
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2020, 02:58:45 pm »
Honestly I'm just disappointed, and somewhat still shocked.

I thought old staff was good people. They were pretty cool to work with when I was on the team for map making. They helped me make one of my best maps.

That said, watching this happen last night, as it was happening, was shocking. I never thought the people who we worked with for those many months were capable of such horribly unprofessional behavior.  I don't care if you have history with or against someone, this was an example on how not to be a moderator.

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Re: Let's have a talk about censorship
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2020, 03:29:02 pm »
The thread could have at least been locked and AppleCider PM'd if THIS is how you're going to approach the matter.

I could make the same point about Birdie posting this publicly. Instead of posting publicly under the guise of some friend etc she could have simply messaged us about it herself just the same. What was the need for all the extra steps?

The problem arose when she decided to take a dishonest route to fabricate a negative story right away. Why not ask why she immediately took to a large FH Discord community to falsely report and accuse on something she had no answer to yet? Which resulted in the immediate back flow of troll accounts coming on to leave death threats, hateful comments, etc.

If the question came from an honest concern there would have been no need for that, and nothing would have escalated the way it has. Let’s be real here. The intention was to fan the flames of drama again needlessly and get a bunch of people to react. So before you point fingers at staff about how “poorly” they handled this situation let’s take a moment to talk about the dishonest & petty behavior of Birdie in the first place that led us all here. There’s a sequence of decisions and events that took place.

All she had to do was ask the staff a simple question. “Hey do you guys know what happened to this thread?” There didn’t need to be any strings attached, alternate accounts to build a narrative, and drama mongering in between. This could have all been avoided.

The staff hadn’t even realized it had been removed until the question was brought up. It took us some time to ask around and look into what happened with that thread. We couldn’t give an answer until we knew ourselves. All that needed to be had was a little patience.

After we then gave the answer which is that Raz deleted it. But still some keep on doing things like this:

Ok so wait is staff gunna say why they took it down or? So far what I'm reading theres nothing- even though they're commenting, theres no real excuse and that leaves me worried o.o

It’s like some don’t read or pretend not to read so that they can continue things. An answer was given, but the moment people see an opportunity for drama they enter a state of blind rage and press on. Then some feel the need to troll or leave unnecessary comments or inbox messages. Even telling staff to kill them selves... Exactly how is that behavior any better? It totally contradicts the conversation.

A reaction like this should be expected if that's how you treat people, is all I'm saying.

I can say the same for staff. We have rules and terms and conditions the community agreed to when they joined. If users continue to violate those rules by causing unrest, turmoil, purposefully spreading misinformation, or causing drama etc we have to take action for the betterment of the rest of the community. We don’t like for things to get to that point.

A big issue here is that you got your answer (Raz deleted it) as well as solution (we’ll remake it) but it wasn’t enough to you all. You never want to admit that some of you tend to make a bigger deal out of things than was necessary. Then once action is taken you act like you have no idea why it happened. This response would be fitting if staff just ignored you all and didn’t offer a solution. But we didn’t.

why does a new thread need to be made?

The thread xSpirit posted was very informative and helpful, as simple as it was. If the Staff really had an issue with it, then the least you guys could have done as a team was work towards revamping it rather than a new thread altogether.
Could it be because of the drama between FHU and FH? Who knows, but from my perspective it's almost as if Raz would rather have a new author of the thread so xSpirit won't be praised for doing the original helpline thread, now that he's gone forward with FHU and has a very genuine Staff team behind him. He'd rather have a member of his own team take the credit. I doubt I'm the only one that thinks that either, now that Sura has stated "we're making a new one" even though it's completely unnecessary and quite frankly, unfair treatment towards Spirit - who took his time to make that thread in the first place.There was nothing wrong with it and nothing can prove otherwise.
As hinted earlier on in this thread, it's just a sign of pettiness if my observations are true.


It’s deleted. That means it’s gone. Which means we need to recreate it. This jumping to assumptions and making false statements like this is what keeps breeding this drama and misinformation in this community. Raz deleted it. We don’t know why. It’s really that simple.

Staff are not against having such helpful material for the community. I was the one who talked about it with xSpirit when he mentioned it to me, and I told him to go for it.