Author Topic: International Board  (Read 16140 times)

Offline Kuri

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Re: International Board
« Reply #40 on: June 04, 2019, 08:25:42 pm »
https://feral-heart.com/smf/index.php?topic=66400.0;topicseen
so
since obviously putting up translations of posts if they include foreign languages isn't allowed

any updates on this?
since this might solve issues as the thread i linked has provided?

I think what's highlighted here is a perfect example of why this board is necessary. Effectively criminalising non-English speakers is not going to benefit the community in any way. I've met some lovely French and Czech people on FH, even with a very rudimentary understanding of their languages, and enforcing an 'English only' policy is only going to discourage those people from playing the game. We should be encouraging these people to be part of the community rather than putting them down. I apologise if this comes off as aggressive in any way, but it's something I feel very strongly about. Nobody should be punished for simply trying to reach out to other people.

I like meeting the people that speak other languages.  The great thing about internet forums is translators for them exist, even if they don't translate very well.
The Japanese concept of wabisabi:
The closest concept in english would be 'rustic'
They might have an old thing, one example is a favourite bowl or dish, it's broken, pieces are missing, why fix it?  With gold and pieces from other dishes?
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Offline G4RG0YLE

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Re: International Board
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2019, 09:43:29 am »
We do not criminalise non-English speakers and nor do we degrade them for the fact that they speak a language other than English. I don't think it's very fair to think this.
We encourage English to be the only language simply because it is easier for most Staff and community to understand, particularly when it comes to problems users face, particularly on the forums.
We do not shut down other languages, we just advise English because it is our most effective way of communicating with one another and for all to understand.

We do not punish people in-game for speaking other languages either so I don't know where this assumption must have come from but hopefully this sheds some light on the matter.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 09:45:29 am by Scallywag »

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Offline Jango_Fett

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Re: International Board
« Reply #42 on: June 07, 2019, 04:16:09 am »
We do not criminalise non-English speakers and nor do we degrade them for the fact that they speak a language other than English. I don't think it's very fair to think this.
We encourage English to be the only language simply because it is easier for most Staff and community to understand, particularly when it comes to problems users face, particularly on the forums.
We do not shut down other languages, we just advise English because it is our most effective way of communicating with one another and for all to understand.

We do not punish people in-game for speaking other languages either so I don't know where this assumption must have come from but hopefully this sheds some light on the matter.

Sorry but that's simply not true. At the very least in the eyes of not just the English speaking community, but also those who speak other languages.
That thread is an excellent example and I will refer to it continuously throughout this post.

The precedent that has been set especially on the forums is that if you do not post in English you will get whatever you were trying to say locked or sternly corrected.
This is in the eyes of the players, not just from my observations but what other people have also told me.
That was somewhat understandable. The rules are the rules.
But in that thread the person provided a translation into English so people knew that they weren't swearing or anything, so that both sides of the aisle could understand.


Now, Case A is obviously different from B, yet both were treated the same.
The question that arises is this:
Why?
No answer was given.

Only a surprisingly aggressive 'locking this thread we don't permit non-english'(I am generalizing) post before being locked.
From that, people make their own conclusions. It's just unfortunate that this one has been in the making for a while.


Now you brought something up that I actually was hoping someone would mention - People can speak whatever they want on the game.
Apart from obvious change in medium, why is it different on the forums? If anything it's easier for us non multi-lingual people to translate(And also for the other people, but if you're dealing with hypothetically a young ruski who doesn't understand chrome - Might not happen) as you can just copy paste what you see.
That's not necessarily effective since google translator should never be your be all end all, but if it's all you have that's all you have.
It'd be like using urban dictionary to find hip new naughty phrases or something.

Is it because of a discrepancy in perms? What?
These are questions that need answers.
Maybe they haven't been answered because no one asked the question, but I have a feeling that's not entirely the case.


You can say that the staff are only 'advising' English over all else, but what is currently being seen is definitely not that. What is being seen, whether you mean to be doing it or not, is an aggressive slap to the face for non-english speakers. Even if they go through the effort of translating, which one would think is what Staff want.


Take your time in responding please. I apologize if this seems hostile, but I will be honest in saying that I'm irked.
I will end it by saying this - You may not have MEANT for things to be like this(or viewed), but I'm afraid that's what's happening.

I also ask that although the patch takes priority, this thread has been up for quite sometime. Even when the last patch was still fresher than it obviously is now. What gives?

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Offline G4RG0YLE

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Re: International Board
« Reply #43 on: June 07, 2019, 07:25:00 am »
Speaking another language on the FeralHeart forums is not "sternly corrected".
For the example you have given, fellow Kerriki politely implied everything and I personally would not have worded it any other way. Kerriki even gave suggestions to the user so I therefore do not perceive the post to have been aggressive nor "stern" like you are pointing said finger.

While we are apologetic to those who deem our response to foreign languages rude and aggressive, we have been going by this rule in a respectful manner for a long time. How it is read is not something we can control and unfortunately this is why users are having misunderstandings with us in the first place. People misunderstand the choice of wording, then spread word of how aggressive/rude/terrible we apparently are for enforcing a rule. Same applies to a lot of things we've done over the years.

It is treated differently on the forums because I have already mentioned, the use of communication when we seek help on the forums.
If we cannot answer a question because it is in another language, Google Translate is an awful and untrustworthy source, how else are we going to resolve the communication issue by asking for English to being the language they use (if possible) before we can resolve the problem they may be having in the game? Truth is, we can't.
Staff cannot speak every language known to man and we have to work with this.

I can and will say that the Staff are only advising because that is what we are doing and we will do nothing more, nothing less.
In the eyes of the community this apparently, in some cases, is not good enough. Which is where things seem to kick off and people get worked up and make us out to be terrible people for having such a rule.
Being a "slap in the face" is a prime example of people thinking of the worst case scenario(s).

Threads can be up for years and may not be used until many more years down the line. Just because this suggestion has been brought up, it does not mean it will most definitely be used. There are things Raz considers more important to be done and - like General chat - there are some ideas we like - like this one - but would much rather come to a conclusion more a little later one when what is more important to him, is done first.
Just because we haven't told you what you'd like to hear now doesn't mean we won't do it later in terms of conclusions/whether or not we'll use it in some form.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 07:27:54 am by Scallywag »

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Offline Warriorstrike

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Re: International Board
« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2019, 07:27:18 am »
https://feral-heart.com/smf/index.php?topic=66400.0;topicseen
so
since obviously putting up translations of posts if they include foreign languages isn't allowed

any updates on this?
since this might solve issues as the thread i linked has provided?

Hey guys. <3 I figured I’d make a comment to this thread since I think something recently posted was taken the wrong way.

I told Kiki to lock that thread because there were several reasons why it didn’t fit into the board it was posted in. The post was basically saying for Polish users to comment on the thread and make community, but it was posted in the Game Discussion board, which outlines that in order to post in that board, one must include some kind of discussion or topic to discuss. (This could be anything, such as “Have you met any Polish-speaking players on the game?”, “Do you guys like playing Feral Heart with people who speak the same language as you?”, etc.) There wasn’t any discussion going on in the post, which strays from the board rules. The topic as it was didn’t belong in the Game Discussion board, either, since it didn’t mention Feral Heart or an aspect of the game; any posts under the Game Discussion must be related to the game. (If a proper discussion were provided in the thread, we could move it over to the Off-Topic Discussion, but since the user did not express any topic of discussion, it would be misplaced. We don’t like to move a board somewhere it’s unclear what the owner of the thread is wanting to take it, in the case that moving it would only be redirecting it into a board it doesn’t fit within.) The thread was asking people to comment, which is borderline of a chat thread, which we do not permit on the forum, as a whole. The nature of the thread was more or less a “Hey! Post below! Let’s make a community!” But it was very vague whether they were implying an advertisement to something they had created (in which we could move it to the Community Hub Board or a roleplay advertisement board). For those reasons, it didn’t fit in any board, but it could have if the op offered a bit more detail as to what they were wanting (or if they adjusted info to make it appropriate, like add questions or a discussion topic). The fact that they used some Polish in their topic wasn’t the reason it was locked— moreso, it was nudging them that English should be kept to the public forum. It’s better to let users know this stuff so that they don’t continue to post and then are confused as to why one person warns them for it and another doesn’t. (Usually a comment below their post as a warning would be acceptable, but there were several things going wrong with the thread, which is why it was locked). It’s not necessary to lock a thread merely if someone happens to use a little bit of another language in their comment. It is important, however, for moderators to make them aware of what isn’t allowed on the forum. It’s part of staff’s job to do that, and nothing bad was meant by it. If an entire thread is posted in another language or the intention is to generate a topic in another language, it can be locked since it makes monitoring harder on staff. We have no problems with users advertising non-English speaking roleplays, Discord’s, chat rooms, etc. We just ask that users use English on the forum so we can monitor what goes on better.

I’m sorry if someone misunderstood. Hopefully anyone who interpreted it in any other way understands that staff were just doing their job and no harm was meant by it.

It was locked because multiple things made it so that it didn’t fit into the board. The comment Kiki provided offered for the user to contact her if they needed any clarification or to make a request, as well, which we will do if we aren’t sure what direction the user wants to take their post but if has too many open-ended lines for us and disorganization to leave the thread hanging around in a board it doesn’t belong it. The user is more than welcome to make another thread so long as it follows the rules of the board they’re posting it.

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Offline WolfQueen

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Re: International Board
« Reply #45 on: June 07, 2019, 08:01:50 am »
A lot of vulgar words in different languages are vague when translated in English (certain Spanish dialects being a strong example) so using an online translator in order to moderate an international board wouldn't be a good idea. Urban Dictionary is also an American-based website afaik so it doesn't really have a lot of slang in languages compared to English.

I once mentioned in a thread like this that ChickenSmoothie has an international board that isn't too chaotic. Pretty much everyone there follows the rules and there are many mods that are also bilingual on that site. The FeralHeart forums is a little different from that though.

Overall I see no harm in having an international board. Sure yeah moderating will be difficult but that doesn't mean that there will be cussing and vulgar language the second a board like this is made here. I never moderated a forum though so I'm not 100% certain LOL


Offline Jango_Fett

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Re: International Board
« Reply #46 on: June 07, 2019, 08:20:54 am »
just to be brief since i actually don't really need to type much in response


why did none of you just ask for clarification as to what the OP of the thread wanted to do
and then move the thread accordingly

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Re: International Board
« Reply #47 on: June 07, 2019, 08:37:25 am »
Quite frankly, I'm all for the idea only if the necessary requirements are met. I would love to have a board for all our fellow FeralHeart players who speak a different language, but I don't want something so great to have a terrible start (to then be taken down) due to the lack of ability to give it proper care. To that, I say not to force something like this. (Not trying to say any of you are.) As said prior to this post, it would need fluent speaking staff (or "mini-staff") to be able to monitor that board daily. It's a big job that takes time and dedication.

Commenting very quickly on what Jango, Scal and Nynx are talking about, perhaps all that confusion of weather one is getting a "slap to the face" or "sternly corrected," could be eased by explaining a little more as to why a thread was locked when going through the process of locking it. Whenever I have to tell someone why I'm removing something or trying to enforce rules of any sort wherever I am, I ALWAYS try to explain everything to them so they don't feel as if they're being silenced, put down, or whatever else. Even after I explain everything, I ask if they have any questions so I can explain to them whatever they want to know. Communication is important, as is understanding why something is done. I've personally never felt as if Staff were being rude or rather silencing towards our non-English speakers, but simply doing their job on keeping the boards as neat and kept as possible. It's a hard job and sometimes they deal with being misunderstood, like this. After all, all members are always welcome to PM that staff member or another to ask them a question.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 08:39:28 am by Ame88 »

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Re: International Board
« Reply #48 on: June 07, 2019, 08:49:38 am »
 Again, it's not and never will be an idea we're going to leave in the dark. We've had lots of in-depth discussion about the potential of this already so it is not something we ignore.
It might not be an instantaneous implement but it might be something for the future.

Being a little hostile for one won't quicken the process of it all by making example of staff actions and criminalising it all from one particular case.

Let's leave the discussion on that topic at that before things get out of hand as it seems to have already, given the passive-aggressive coming to rise.
The International Board idea is an idea to serve well for the community and those who struggle to speak english, not to target staff actions and point fingers with assumptions based on misunderstanding. Nynx has already justified what happened and now let's move on. Ame88 has also explained a few things perfectly.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 08:51:26 am by Scallywag »

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Re: International Board
« Reply #49 on: June 07, 2019, 03:03:26 pm »
I would be down for this, even as a person who only speaks English.

Many of the points stated by the staff and those who oppose really don't make sense towards me however. The game itself allows people to speak languages other than English and to my knowledge that isn't moderated at ALL. Especially since the moderators speak English and possibly 1 other language if we are lucky. The forums however doesn't allow it?

In the words of a certain commercial.. "Why not both?"