Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: razmirz on September 26, 2018, 11:57:26 am
I dont speak puppy unfortunately
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: G4RG0YLE on September 26, 2018, 12:09:30 pm
What is the purpose of this board, exactly?
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: razmirz on September 26, 2018, 12:30:42 pm
I haven't actually decided yet. It used to be the mate centre. For now its simply a place where the people in it can speak to me. That's assuming you would like to.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: G4RG0YLE on September 26, 2018, 12:39:38 pm
Then I hope you can understand that I do not dislike you as a person, merely some of the decisions you have made and the consequences of those decisions. However, on behalf of this board being described as a quiet place, I won't be stating anything in regard to the events taking place in here - my opinion was already stated clear enough elsewhere. I do not seek to cause drama.
Who else can see this board, assuming not everyone can?
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: razmirz on September 26, 2018, 12:45:56 pm
10 people I believe oh I might be number 11. Most of you are ex MOTS. Usually high post count. All I believe with a desire for the community to flourish. Other than that I know very little about you all. I guess you will ass see each other as you choose to post or not as the case may be.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: G4RG0YLE on September 26, 2018, 12:49:00 pm
I believe all that have spoken out, regardless of post count, have stated that they wish for the game to continue thriving as it had been doing so before. Are there any future plans for this board in particular, such as discussion of what to do? Or, has that also been undecided? I'm rather intrigued.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Valar.Morghulis on September 26, 2018, 01:01:06 pm
What I suggest for you Raz, is to maybe play the game a little bit more? Involve with the community and try to explain people what is happening in a way they might understand? It seems frustrating when you always know so much, but yeah. Like for example, comment on that news post and explain what will happen for example when you block someone etc etc. There’s a lot of teenagers who have no clue as to what this is. And many of you don’t really know how to respond other than just argue I guess.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: razmirz on September 26, 2018, 01:06:19 pm
There's reasons behind everything I did. I'm not one for doing stuff out of spite. I guess the honest answer is while I could wield the game with an iron fist I don't particularly want to. And even if i put all my time into that. The forum would be abandoned. Thing is at the end of the day. If there's no forum there's no game. As you are all probably aware its the forum that pays for the game. And it is self sustaining. So long as it remains self sustaining the game will live. But when I took this job on It was on the basis that game pays its own way.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: razmirz on September 26, 2018, 01:08:43 pm
Valar I will digg an old post out the staff room keep your eyes on the board
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: G4RG0YLE on September 26, 2018, 01:11:52 pm
Might I ask, what has made you decline the return of old FeralHeart features and maps? General chat? The return of such things, would be what bring people back who left when the update came out in the first place. Many people were disappointed in the loss of maps where memories were made and treasured. I understand if only a certain amount of maps may be handled - yet, surely there would be enough room for a portal in Cape of Distant Worlds, installed without the need of a member to do so as a separate downloading file, where members can retreat to the good ol' days?
And what are the plans when No Mod October comes to an end?
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: razmirz on September 26, 2018, 01:39:08 pm
You make it sound like I outright declined everything. I refused to allow the simple ditching of what the staff considered to simply be in the way of their plan (other existing maps, world logic etc). I refuted the idea that we had to wait while they continued to rewrite the world before releasing anything instead of progressing to it with patches that built on the game rather than an old setup gone new setup in method (on that basis I might have just as well reverted to before reds patch). And finally I didn't approve of how some of these maps put maps inside maps.
As for no mod October we aren't even in it yet xD I've not even begun to look beyond.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: G4RG0YLE on September 26, 2018, 01:48:00 pm
I do not doubt for one solid second that you didn't consider the return of old maps and well-missed features of the game. However, it has been insinuated that you did in fact seem to mistreat Staff members because of what had been done (i.e Nynx uploading what was uploaded, to which I do not know as I did not see the post completely).
So, what you are saying is, you were trying to update the game with new features and etcetera, before you would consider releasing previous features such as the return of General chat? I apologise if you believe I'm rather dumb to not know exactly what you are saying, aha, I haven't received enough sleep as of last night.
If you are not looking beyond No Mod October, that should be a priority regardless of how long you have to make decisions. A lot of people will state that you need to prioritise the fact that, you need a new Staff team, but I would like to point out you should probably decide whether or not the game shall continue even running - and how you're going to keep interest when the majority of this community has already up and left with the (now retired) Staff.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: razmirz on September 26, 2018, 01:55:47 pm
This is something we wanted to show you for quite some time. We wanted to release this patch for you guys, but Raz was against it and it was his choice to refuse to allow this to come to fruition, despite the fact that the rest of the staff team wanted to share what we've been working on with you guys. This patch includes a few new maps, including the additions that our community member map makers Lady_Alizarin and LaughingWolf helped create. We felt that it was unfair not only to the individuals who worked months on this patch but also to you guys for raising expectations that a patch would be released only for nothing to come from it.
This release is a major Work in Progress.
This version of the patch is still WIP-- the desert environment, in particular, was still having work done on it when you view this version. The desert had to be downsized so that it didn’t cause so much strain on the server (for those of you who recognize this map, I'm sure you will understand why). We had plans to edit Ficho Tunnels to make it more straightforward and easy to navigate. There is much in this patch that was still being discussed, and this isn't in any way the entire finished product. There is quite a bit in here that isn't even close to what was intended for the future-- portals, restructures, and decorations were all still a work in progress, progress that we were looking forward to turning concept pieces into fully-fledged final versions. Nonetheless, we wanted you to see what we were working on. If not in the way it was supposed to be imagined, at least a glimmer into the vision we had predicted.
We wanted to cultivate a patch that took into consideration the thoughts and wants of the community while still making it workable in the current world. Hopefully we were able to bring back some of that nostalgia for you and correct some of the problems that the current patch had.
In addition to the maps of the patch, we wanted to include some other changes to the game in this patch that the rest of the staff agreed upon-- bringing General Chat back, making some changes to the rules to be a bit more lenient on language, and opening Registration. We know that you all have raised concerns about these concepts in particular, so we decided to put our trust in your desires and focus on designing the game so that this would be your patch-- the community's patch-- not merely the staff's.
Thank you for your continuous support, and thank you to all of those who put their faith into the staff team. We tried to include your thoughts with this patch and make this for you. Keep in mind that this patch won't officially make it into the game. These maps will be released as a private map pack. Enjoy.~
--> Click here to download the WIP release <-- (http://www.mediafire.com/file/vw5dteita5li6ve/FeralHeart+Patch+Maps.zip)
//TheFeralHeartStaffTeam
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Valar.Morghulis on September 26, 2018, 01:56:51 pm
Alright, but how do you get out of this mess? All Staff members left, you kicked Nynx. Now, this sends a really bad message about you. I don't want Feral Heart to end, but if this somehow miraculously isn't fixed, I don't think that It's going to last. I have been here since 2012 and for me, and most users, these sudden news have been strange and scary, especially the Staff part. The way I see it, the only way to maybe save the game is by opening up the registration? People have said that It would cause server to crash and what not, but I don't think that would happen. FH is not as popular as before, but I do see a lot of users on various sites, asking about the registration.
Quote
I refuted the idea that we had to wait while they continued to rewrite the world before releasing anything instead of progressing to it with patches that built on the game rather than an old setup gone new setup in method (on that basis I might have just as well reverted to before reds patch).
Wait, so you are saying that there could be patches in the game more frequently? For example, adding the General chat (which literally everyone wants back) and more maps, but not as much as they would be released in what was ''supposed'' to be that WIP Patch?
^ ^ started to post this before last two posts that were added before mine (had to afk real quick)
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: G4RG0YLE on September 26, 2018, 02:26:20 pm
This is my level of understanding and summary of the WHOLE thing. You are welcome to correct me where I am wrong:
For quite some time, the Staff wanted to release a patch alongside the upcoming update that would involve the return of old, revamped FeralHeart maps. However, although this was encouraged by most if not all of the other Staff members, you did not comply for this to happen and so the retired Staff Member who is believed to have been kicked rather than having stepped down, Warriorstrike/Nynx posted the patch behind your back and regardless of your thoughts. This patch reflected the desires of the rest of the FeralHeart community and it is under the speculation of FH users that Nynx only intended to do the right thing as well as other Staff members who agreed with her decision to upload the patch.
However, you removed the post and have chosen not to take any responsibility for those who are currently facing the issue of their characters being deleted when they log out of the maps in said patch. You are also not currently taking the responsibility to get these characters back because you are still making decisions revolving around the progress of FeralHeart for the near future. In doing so, you chose for the old maps to not be released in revamp (having considered the idea), as well as not permitting the return of General chat for reasons you described in the thread where you posted your justification for removing General Chat in the first place, many years back.
Because of the removed post that is quoted to be a separate, private map pack to the official release of the next FeralHeart update, the whole Staff team decided to retire and expressed particular hatred for your actions. From seeing this thread, it is clear that team cohesion was not at its strongest amongst all of the Staff who tried to persuade you into releasing the old maps and other missed features from the old FeralHeart. They also state that you removed Nynx from the Staff Team and make it clear that she was downgraded (punished) to announce a map pack that was in response to the whole of the community's desires in the first place, reflecting what had been asked for since the recent update. Because of this removal and lack of team effort, it led the Staff team to believe that you have aimed to be a solo Server Master that controls the game for quite some time, being especially frustrated that you chose to remove Nynx without their consent or cooperation.
The Staff team, all in all, chose to leave because of your decline in their wishes to follow the desires of the community - something that every Staff, no matter what role and no matter with what responsibility, should aim for. It was said that you went against the community and the Staff have expressed that enough in their 'We love you!' thread. They stood beside you for many years yet you considered and called them replaceable in their eyes, which will always leave a scar on their heart considering how much effort they've put into this game.
You've now decided to create a board where willing users (although there are a lot more than 10/11) to see their views and seek advice(?)/help in aiding the game's recovery. This has been backed up by how you previously mentioned to staff in the staff board that you originally wanted to do this in the first place, but can only now do so without the influence of a Staff team to tell you the pros and cons of doing so. Yet, the only way to move forward is to first answer the questions of the community. They are all very similar and although you have explained much already, the full story has not been unraveled, even without revealing personal messages/information. A story can be told while defending someone's private life and information.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: razmirz on September 26, 2018, 02:42:24 pm
"We wanted to release this patch for you guys, but Raz was against it and it was his choice to refuse to allow this to come to fruition, despite the fact that the rest of the staff team wanted to share what we've been working on with you guys. "
I wasn't against the patch. There's your first lie. I spent hours days trying to figure out how to incorporate it into the world without breaking what Red had done. I actually provided an option which wasn't even responded to.
"the additions that our community member map makers Lady_Alizarin and LaughingWolf helped create."(created not helped create)
These were actually a part of the original patch that was supposed to be released long before. A patch made by the community for the community. These will be released Shortly.
This really was nothing more than a political stunt in my eyes. And yes I banned Nynx for it
As for general chat and ohh you all love general chat and I'm not saying that it doesn't work. General chat would probably work just fine now in game. Why you ask then do i not put it back? Because when you have 300+ people in 1 map it doesn't work. So lets say I put it back? The game grows. I'm supposed to remove it again when the game is too big for it? My answer was to look at other uses for the chat function such as an advertising chat or something similar. I must admit it wasn't up on my list of priorities.
I had suggested much more regular smaller patches giving the community time to focus on each peace as its released. And if there's still an army of map makers wanting to have a part they would be welcome.
Registration hasn't changed much over the years we still even now have over 1000 new accounts made every month. The problem is the users don't stick. Reg is open daily if you checked every day for a week at the same time to see if its open there's a pretty good chance you would have an account.
As for staff I have a couple of options 1 I call in some favours end up with a team who aren't quite as in touch with the community but are loyal to a fault and know exactly what they are doing. 2 I pick-up a random group of people out of the forums people I don't know but want the community to thrive and any issues that arise from it I deal with separately.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: G4RG0YLE on September 26, 2018, 02:52:40 pm
As for staff I have a couple of options 1 I call in some favours end up with a team who aren't quite as in touch with the community but are loyal to a fault and know exactly what they are doing. 2 I pick-up a random group of people out of the forums people I don't know but want the community to thrive and any issues that arise from it I deal with separately.
Or even both? A Staff Team, a new one, will never quite match what was done by the now retired Staff. They were active to the community and knew how to work the game in terms of map-making, preset-making, redoing textures, etc. and you will probably never find such a strong team again.
With option 2, my only concern is, they may want the game to thrive, but how will they help you achieve this, especially if they don't know how to make specific things? For example, I know how to make presets and that's the limit of my creativity already. My only specialty would be to manage the community and ensure safety for the youth. Appointing new Staff in FeralHeart was and still is a very long process because you want to make sure you appoint the right people who consist of skill that will aid the game itself. Which is why I recommended thinking ahead of 'No Mod October' in the first place.
You need Staff that can help FeralHeart get back to how it was and offer new additions/returns of old additions to the game. But you also need a Staff team that can serve FeralHeart in the long run.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: razmirz on September 26, 2018, 03:00:25 pm
I believe in the last post in the news that I have stated I will return peoples characters to them my issue is said rogue patch is still trapping members. I cant keep retiving charaters indefinitely I will do a bulk restore.
As for what the staff team did and didn't do I'm not about to start some tit for tat about who did what. My name was mud long before FH and it can remain that way. So long as it keeps others in the clear.
With regards to the full story I'm the wrong person to ask. And I have no desire to defend everything I've done
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Valar.Morghulis on September 26, 2018, 03:05:13 pm
Quote
I wasn't against the patch. There's your first lie. I spent hours days trying to figure out how to incorporate it into the world without breaking what Red had done. I actually provided an option which wasn't even responded to.
What was that option, may I ask?
Quote
General chat would probably work just fine now in game. Why you ask then do i not put it back? Because when you have 300+ people in 1 map it doesn't work. So lets say I put it back? The game grows. I'm supposed to remove it again when the game is too big for it?
How and why exactly wouldn't it work? Except for a bunch of spamming, which is already happening with Movies and Local sometimes.
Quote
I had suggested much more regular smaller patches giving the community time to focus on each peace as its released.
Okay but would these patches be with an installer in which you could just click on ''Export'' and everything magically exports to FeralHeart. Because I don't think that everyone would want to download small patches every now and then.
Quote
As for staff I have a couple of options 1 I call in some favours end up with a team who aren't quite as in touch with the community but are loyal to a fault and know exactly what they are doing. 2 I pick-up a random group of people out of the forums people I don't know but want the community to thrive and any issues that arise from it I deal with separately.
As for number 1; who exactly are these people? Retired Staff from before or?
And for number2; I don't think that picking whole new team is a good thing. Old Staff know's a lot better about things in the Forum than the newbies. That doesn't mean that the ''New Staff Team'' should be only old members.
^ ^ also written before you two posted
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: G4RG0YLE on September 26, 2018, 03:10:18 pm
I am in complete understanding that you will aim and work towards the return of people's beloved characters.
I do not aim to make you reveal information in any regard to what the Staff Team did and did not do as I do not aim to have any sort of drama or disagreement with your POV, as I have no insight of what truly what went on and only you and the Staff shall have this information. It should stay that way.
Whether you were for or against whatever was brought up or planned to be released, I choose not to know and turn a blind eye to as it does not resolve anything regardless of attempt. My only concern is how FeralHeart is going to be moving forward and how you are going to manoeuvre between the options you've stated, in appointing new Staff members.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: razmirz on September 26, 2018, 03:15:07 pm
"how will they help you achieve this" Its not about me
"map-making, preset-making, redoing textures, etc" the staff don't need to do these jobs they simply facilitate the community. Obviously skills are a bonus.
Not sure I have the option of a long process... Though history shows bad mods don't last terribly long...
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Astraea on September 26, 2018, 03:23:57 pm
I am highly confused about this entire situation. Everything.
Regardless... I am going to keep myself around, lurking, to see what happens in the future. This game means a lot to me, it has for seven years, and I will stick with it until it shuts down.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: razmirz on September 26, 2018, 03:33:51 pm
"What was that option, may I ask?" To modify old ficho so it was more like a long snake rather than leaving it squashed to give reach to put bonfire in further out from new ficho granting a logical land mass to build upon above and without breaking existing connections between maps.
" How and why exactly wouldn't it work? Except for a bunch of spamming, which is already happening with Movies and Local sometimes." 100% sure on what your asking there. If your referring to the advertising concept it would be a chat you could only post in on an irregular basis. Force a user to wait between adverts etc.
Patches can use the existing install system where you just run the setup file as normal.
Oldies would be ex staff but some of them would be real oldies from when fh came out.
As for new staff I'm open to suggestions.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Astraea on September 26, 2018, 03:39:18 pm
"What was that option, may I ask?" To modify old ficho so it was more like a long snake rather than leaving it squashed to give reach to put bonfire in further out from new ficho granting a logical land mass to build upon above and without breaking existing connections between maps.
" How and why exactly wouldn't it work? Except for a bunch of spamming, which is already happening with Movies and Local sometimes." 100% sure on what your asking there. If your referring to the advertising concept it would be a chat you could only post in on an irregular basis. Force a user to wait between adverts etc.
Patches can use the existing install system where you just run the setup file as normal.
Oldies would be ex staff but some of them would be real oldies from when fh came out.
As for new staff I'm open to suggestions.
Mmh… Lots of thoughts about these comments. If you were to choose new staff, just choose wisely, please. That is all I ask. Easy mistakes could be made in that aspect.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Valar.Morghulis on September 26, 2018, 03:55:36 pm
Quote
"What was that option, may I ask?" To modify old ficho so it was more like a long snake rather than leaving it squashed to give reach to put bonfire in further out from new ficho granting a logical land mass to build upon above and without breaking existing connections between maps.
I agree that the original Ficho map should have stayed the same or at least not so heavily modified because now, It's not very easy to find things. I guess, making it longer and a little bit bigger would to the job, but also adding new meshes into the game. I agree with everything having 'logic' and not having random portals in maps. Also, I think that Bonfire should have stayed the same or similar map that It was before. It would have been modified with more meshes, but not at all what it is now. I don't think many people even go there anymore.
Quote
" How and why exactly wouldn't it work? Except for a bunch of spamming, which is already happening with Movies and Local sometimes." 100% sure on what your asking there. If your referring to the advertising concept it would be a chat you could only post in on an irregular basis. Force a user to wait between adverts etc.
I think that local chat should stay the way it is. But, as for Movie chat, that is on a whole another level. I agree with what you are suggesting about forcing users to wait between adverts. Maybe wait 30 seconds between each advert? A minute seems a bit too long though.
Quote
Patches can use the existing install system where you just run the setup file as normal.
I agree with this, It seems like a genuinely good idea.
Now, I do want to point out one more thing. Game Pools (https://feral-heart.com/smf/index.php?board=90.0) They should be used. In order for you to gain member's trust again, you should post some pools for people to '' Vote for things in the game'' that you approve of and are thinking about adding. This hasn't been used in what seems like forever, and I think that right now, It's the best time to use it.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Astraea on September 26, 2018, 04:02:15 pm
"What was that option, may I ask?" To modify old ficho so it was more like a long snake rather than leaving it squashed to give reach to put bonfire in further out from new ficho granting a logical land mass to build upon above and without breaking existing connections between maps.
I agree that the original Ficho map should have stayed the same or at least not so heavily modified because now, It's not very easy to find things. I guess, making it longer and a little bit bigger would to the job, but also adding new meshes into the game. I agree with everything having 'logic' and not having random portals in maps. Also, I think that Bonfire should have stayed the same or similar map that It was before. It would have been modified with more meshes, but not at all what it is now. I don't think many people even go there anymore.
Quote
" How and why exactly wouldn't it work? Except for a bunch of spamming, which is already happening with Movies and Local sometimes." 100% sure on what your asking there. If your referring to the advertising concept it would be a chat you could only post in on an irregular basis. Force a user to wait between adverts etc.
I think that local chat should stay the way it is. But, as for Movie chat, that is on a whole another level. I agree with what you are suggesting about forcing users to wait between adverts. Maybe wait 30 seconds between each advert? A minute seems a bit too long though.
Quote
Patches can use the existing install system where you just run the setup file as normal.
I agree with this, It seems like a genuinely good idea.
Now, I do want to point out one more thing. Game Pools (https://feral-heart.com/smf/index.php?board=90.0) They should be used. In order for you to gain member's trust again, you should post some pools for people to '' Vote for things in the game'' that you approve of and are thinking about adding. This hasn't been used in what seems like forever, and I think that right now, It's the best time to use it.
I agree. Game Polls are a great way to involve the community in aiding the games future. Also, about movies, I agree on the fact that people do spam movies, quite often. A sort of waiting system might be helpful in resulting in less spam. Whatever that may be, it will be decided on in the future if implemented, aye?
I personally think Ficho should be modified to gain easier access to other maps. The whole map just seems really large to me, at least it did in the patch. It might just be my own opinion though. A realistic twist to portals might be nice to see as well. Such as portals under things or in certain areas that would be logical.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: G4RG0YLE on September 26, 2018, 04:04:19 pm
My only suggestion is in terms of recruiting Staff.
A lot of them, now, will be serving in the eyes of the community and this is what you must be open-minded for. If they come up with a suggestion, it will no doubt reflect upon what the community ask for or would desire to be implemented, and for this you must be prepared to consider what could be done. I do not doubt that you don't consider what the community wants. However, what the previous Staff have stated has simply given other members an idea that you are selfish and only act upon what you want. I do not believe this 100%, but know that people can twist and turn in actions and decisions. We've all done it and, I truly believe you are a great person and you are most definitely, human. You make mistakes as does everyone.
What you must do now, as FeralHeart's Server Master, is think what type of Staff members you need to be able to progress with the game.
(I also just saw you in-game, lemme boop yer nose.)
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Astraea on September 26, 2018, 04:10:59 pm
My only suggestion is in terms of recruiting Staff.
A lot of them, now, will be serving in the eyes of the community and this is what you must be open-minded for. If they come up with a suggestion, it will no doubt reflect upon what the community ask for or would desire to be implemented, and for this you must be prepared to consider what could be done. I do not doubt that you don't consider what the community wants. However, what the previous Staff have stated has simply given other members an idea that you are selfish and only act upon what you want. I do not believe this. I truly believe you are a great person and you are most definitely, human. You make mistakes as does everyone.
What you must do now, as FeralHeart's Server Master, is think what type of Staff members you need to be able to progress with the game.
(I also just saw you in-game, lemme boop yer nose.)
I agree here as well entirely. Everyone does make mistakes, but that does not define somebody. No one is perfect.
On the other hand though, I think with the right staff chosen, the community will start to mend once more. People who care about the community and Feral Heart. Like I have said before, though, easy mistakes can be made and I only ask that you think people over wisely. Get backgrounds, learn about what they have to offer, look at their past activity, helpfulness, etc.
This doesn't have to be the end of Feral Heart, and almost the entire community is in panic and assuming it is. A lot of people I know are either questioning or assuming you are going to pull the plug at any point. I think some post or something that can be done, will comfort those in panic, personally I think putting the community at ease might alleviate some of the stress. (BOOP <3)
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Morqque on September 26, 2018, 07:41:21 pm
Hey, lurker and survivor of the 'mess'. I agree. If you where to choose new staff. Choose wisely. Glad to see this isnt the "demise" of FH, but rather a new begining.
However I too am confused on this whole thing. But I'll continue To cooperative with whatever happens.. I'm not a side taker. And I won't leave FH so easily. Good luck
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: FlyingGrass on September 26, 2018, 08:41:58 pm
Hello!
I've been watching this board since around the time it was created.
Choose the staff wisely.
I wish you luck in regaining the trust of the community. When in public boards, I'll act like I still don't know, to maintain this board's cover. If you need something, let me know and I'll try to help to the best of my ability, but I'll analyse each of my tasks to make sure they're right.
Nothing's going to push me away from FeralHeart while it's up and running.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Kuri on September 26, 2018, 08:54:32 pm
So many things to talk about, i see talk of ficho's redesign. The 1.15 ficho seems logical enough, and there's plenty of walls a portal could be put into without the radical redesigns seen recently. Sure it doesn't have that waterfall people focus on, but that's not a major issue. Edit: Oh, zama looked like a drag&drop replacement. The fish were a nice touch. basic, but nice.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Edolicious on September 26, 2018, 10:17:06 pm
I still have many mixed feelings after reading all of this. Yes, I absolutely want the game to continue on. But after all this commotion I'm not sure how that's going to happen.
No Moderator October hasn't started yet, no, but there were already masses of players spamming curses, slurs, and other foul words into the chats. The month hasn't even started. And this is already being done. There's still a few more days before it's implemented, and in the mean time there's no staff to handle reports of these heaps of rule breakers.
One thought may be that people will begin to use your system once it's put into place. But the biggest issue with this is, as someone who's been trying to keep people calm while all this is going on, that I've seen everyone is too scared to get on in order to do so. You said you are not one for explaining yourself, but I do believe your ban system is something that needs to be disclosed, because as of now 90% of the userbase believes that the ban system is that enough blocks on a person gets them banned, something that can easily be exploited. If those people are to return to the game and help maintain a healthy online environment, they need to know how the ban system works so that they feel safe enough to be able to come back. (Proof of this: https://feral-heart.com/smf/index.php?topic=64660.0 )
I'm very confused over whether or not you truly want staff.
Quote from: Razmirz
Also note moderator free October was preparation for the staffs departure.
The fact that you said this, but then said in this thread here that you're unsure how to go about hiring new staff just makes the No Moderator October thing seem meaningless, or as if you wanted to rid of the last staff team specifically.
I don't mean for that to sound like I'm hurling insults, I'm just stating what it looks like to someone with outside perspective. I.e., the rest of the Feralheart community.
If you truly do mean to create another staff team, I agree with the others in saying a mix of both old and new would be best. Most of us have no experience as staff, thus do not know what to look for in a staff member, so I cannot say we can provide good recommendations for new staff members. If you were to bring on a few old staff members, they would most likely help you best with that.
I would like to point out that it seems that the number of staff has always seemed... limited, in the past. Again, as I am not nor have been staff I do not know if there is a specific reason behind this, but I do sincerely believe that a slightly larger staff team would be beneficial to the entire community. A mix of old staff who can both train new staff and perform their old duties while teaching others to do the same.
As for where I stand on the matter, it's simply for the betterment of the game. With everything that has come out, I don't truly know what to believe, so I'll be sticking to facts if I can.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Kuri on September 26, 2018, 10:42:55 pm
I'm very confused over whether or not you truly want staff.
Someone to keep the forums in line & hand out good advice isn't a bad thing. I know a few people who'd be fit for that. Some of them are probably reading this right now.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Edolicious on September 26, 2018, 10:51:34 pm
I'm very confused over whether or not you truly want staff.
Someone to keep the forums in line & hand out good advice isn't a bad thing. I know a few people who'd be fit for that. Some of them are probably reading this right now.
I didn't mean this to sound as if I think staff are a bad idea, I think quite the opposite. I believe they are essential for the game.
What I meant by that is that I'm not able to tell whether Raz desires staff based on things he has posted.
I'm just a little lost.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Panzram on September 27, 2018, 12:57:20 am
Been lurking on this thread since this morning and after taking some time to sit and think about things, here is what I'm going to say.
I think the manner in which this entire situation was executed and handled was at its absolute lowest performance, and I will be forthright about it.
If you are not one for explaining yourself, that is entirely understandable. What makes it unacceptable, however, is involving the entire community and scaring them half to death with a system you chose to be rather vague about. I cannot stress enough how important it is to fully disclose something to those who are involved. They have the right to know what is going on if it affects themselves, their community, and the game they indulge themselves in on an almost daily basis. If your system does not work the way they believe it works, then it is on you to provide the correct information and enlighten everyone on the inner workings of this new implementation. It is a necessity, not a desire.
You want this game to keep running, otherwise why go through all of this trouble? Why provide a private board for a select few members to ponder over staff recruitment methods? If this is what you want, then I suggest you heed not only what I have said so far, but to everyone else who posted in this thread. Before any work or progress can be made, something needs to be done first to fix the community that is currently in shambles due to the carelessness of this situation.
Also from what I have gathered from a couple of your responses, it seems to me you haven't exactly thought some things through, which to me shows a huge flaw in your ability to manage this community. I don't intend for this to sound like an insult, but in order for something to work, you need to have every detail figured out beforehand instead of throwing something out there for others to figure out for you while simultaneously putting them and the community at risk. You have no clue how to recruit new Staff members? You should have thought of that before your actions led to the departure of the Staff team. You haven't looked into Moderator Free October yet? Why rush in getting the thread published, then? I don't understand your intentions, Raz.
As for me and my stance, I have mixed feelings about this whole thing.
I still do not agree with what you have said nor the actions you have taken. I don't believe it was fair to go through with your decision without consulting the rest of the team. I don't believe it was fair for Nynx to receive the punishment you dished out, regardless of whether or not her actions were viewed as a political stunt in your eyes. As I have said, this was - and still is - being handled poorly, and I am certain a number of things currently happening could have been prevented with proper care.
I still don't know the extent of what happened between you and the Staff team nor do I expect you to fill in those gaps for me or for anyone else, as I respect that it's a private matter. I am just distraught that things have come to this, whether you wanted them to or not. I really want this community to continue to flourish and thrive, I really do. However, I can't stop myself from feeling an ounce of dread for what you have in store. I'm sure your intentions are good, Razmirz, but the way you are handling and going about things is rather concerning. You mentioned that staff are "replaceable," and while that may be true in some cases, it certainly isn't for this one. The now retired Staff team brought out the best in the community and have poured so much of their time and effort into this single game. They were a close-knit group consisting of those with years of experience, who knew the community and the game like the backs of their hands and would do anything to keep the userbase happy. How you treated them now or in the past is apparent in their decision to band together and leave the community they likely would not have left under any normal circumstance. Now here we are, on a forum without a working team, and I can't tell if this was something you were actively working towards or not.
Again, I'm certain you still want to keep things running. Everything you've done would be meaningless if not. You realize you need a staff team to keep things working, as made evident by the purpose of this board. I won't give my thoughts on the matter in a way to avoid repeating what has already been said by others before me. Please think at least this through before taking action, Raz, as it is a long process in finding the right members fit for the duties of a staff member.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Valar.Morghulis on September 27, 2018, 07:21:02 am
Just to add onto everything, in a matter of explaining to people what are your intentions with the game (which I personally think are good). And how I think and why you should explain even more than you already did. I am not going to go into what happened between you and the Staff, currently our main goal is to fix this. I think that you should post another explanation of what you would like to do with the game. What you said to us about posting more frequent updates with small patches, having maps layed out differently and the thing you said about Bonfire and Ficho. Also what you said about “Advertising chat” and how there would be waiting between adverts to reduce spam. And to mention that you are indeed looking for a new Staff team.
I think that is what you should do, because community deserves to know these things. I spend a lot of the time in game and on the forum, and most questions that are being asked is about the staff and what are your intentions with this game. People are afraid that you want to shut down the server but I am sure now that you don’t want to do that.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Kuri on September 27, 2018, 07:53:41 am
Also what you said about “Advertising chat” and how there would be waiting between adverts to reduce spam. And to mention that you are indeed looking for a new Staff team.
No don't tell anyone you're looking for staff, the mod beggers started circling the moment they heard the old ones were gone. And mod beggers, are normally not the kind you want to have power. As someone who spent much time on forums in the past i know that much from experience.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: G4RG0YLE on September 27, 2018, 07:56:44 am
Also what you said about “Advertising chat” and how there would be waiting between adverts to reduce spam. And to mention that you are indeed looking for a new Staff team.
No don't tell anyone you're looking for staff, the mod beggers started circling the moment they heard the old ones were gone. And mod beggers, are normally not the kind you want to have power. As someone who spent much time on forums in the past i know that much from experience.
The fact that the Staff Team have already up and left has already evoked people to beg for position on the Staff Team. I do believe Razmirz isn't so desperate as to actually give them power if they're on their knees for it, but show no specific skills and ability to be capable of dealing with the hard work and dedication required to working on the Staff Team.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: razmirz on September 27, 2018, 03:07:51 pm
Alot to respond to here... I'll start with Edo
The community is still here. In fact a lot of faces who haven't even been around for a long time are coming out of the woodwork just to see what's going on. Personally I've a been approached by a load of ex staff telling me their inboxes are going crazy. The community historically has had bigger hiccups.
As for no mod October I wasn't actually ready for the staff to leave(I expected them to based on tensions in the staff team). Hell I haven't finished coding the AI. Never mind feeding it test data. I thought I had almost a full week now with everything else going on I'm further stretched.
With the staff gap of course I'm looking but its not the easiest thing to just pickup a team out of nowhere when your not in a community facing role.
When it comes to learning moderation ropes actual moderation doesn't take much lock move delete edit. There is a guidebook made by red and there will be someone more involved than me to train anyone selected.
@Panz I'm believe most of what you have covered I have somewhat answered either in the response above or previous answers. However you mention the reasons for the staff leaving. I was in conversation with Sura last night. We are still talking. Its been mentioned about a joint smoothing over post considering how everything snowballed very quickly.
I think that covers what I can immediately answer from what you have all said.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Panzram on September 27, 2018, 04:04:13 pm
@Panz I'm believe most of what you have covered I have somewhat answered either in the response above or previous answers. However you mention the reasons for the staff leaving. I was in conversation with Sura last night. We are still talking. Its been mentioned about a joint smoothing over post considering how everything snowballed very quickly.
I understand. Hopefully things gets settled soon then with that post.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Astraea on September 27, 2018, 04:54:30 pm
The community is still here. In fact a lot of faces who haven't even been around for a long time are coming out of the woodwork just to see what's going on. Personally I've a been approached by a load of ex staff telling me their inboxes are going crazy. The community historically has had bigger hiccups.
As for no mod October I wasn't actually ready for the staff to leave(I expected them to based on tensions in the staff team). Hell I haven't finished coding the AI. Never mind feeding it test data. I thought I had almost a full week now with everything else going on I'm further stretched.
With the staff gap of course I'm looking but its not the easiest thing to just pickup a team out of nowhere when your not in a community facing role.
When it comes to learning moderation ropes actual moderation doesn't take much lock move delete edit. There is a guidebook made by red and there will be someone more involved than me to train anyone selected.
@Panz I'm believe most of what you have covered I have somewhat answered either in the response above or previous answers. However you mention the reasons for the staff leaving. I was in conversation with Sura last night. We are still talking. Its been mentioned about a joint smoothing over post considering how everything snowballed very quickly.
I think that covers what I can immediately answer from what you have all said.
Thank you for the update again, Raz. Cleared a few things up for probably a lot of us here, but, the community should still be updated on what is going on to SOME extent. Choosing a staff team IS NOT easy, by any means. But I can offer support and opinion in doing so if you wish. It's good to know you and the ex-staff are still talking, though.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Redlinelies on September 27, 2018, 05:13:53 pm
Returned to help, that's all I wish to say in here, going to leave a more personal post elsewhere.
Nice to see familiar names in here.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Edolicious on September 27, 2018, 05:14:44 pm
Insert thumbs up emoji here
It is an AI then? Heard some rumors but wasn't sure.
I'll admit I was still a bit fired up yesterday, but it's really nice to see people posting how happy they are that their characters are back. Really nice.
I'm glad to see there's some communication between you and Sura too. I hope if that post does go through that everything works out for the better.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Valar.Morghulis on September 27, 2018, 05:19:19 pm
Aye, Thanks for the update Raz. Glad to see you trying to work things out with others ^^
@Redlinelies Yees! Ha, I had a feeling you'd come again to help c: Glad to have you back! <3
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Astraea on September 27, 2018, 05:21:27 pm
Returned to help, that's all I wish to say in here, going to leave a more personal post elsewhere.
Nice to see familiar names in here.
Good to see you lurking 'round Red! Gives me and most likely others here some sense of comfort. I hope you have been well. <3
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Morqque on September 27, 2018, 07:11:04 pm
Oh an AI will be managing? That should be interesting...thanks for clarifying a lot, Raz.
@Red The man himself. Glad you've returned!
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Lucius on September 27, 2018, 11:09:39 pm
Don't know if you've invited me in here by accident, but reading through this whole thread has clarified quite a bit.
As I've recently posted, I'd like to apologize for temporarily loosing control of my temper, it was uncalled for. However, I do still stand by some of the things I've initially said, as poorly worded as they were.
I'm also happy to see that you're keeping in touch with Sura and doing your best to make sure things go well. This community holds a lot of dear memories to everyone, so hopefully this whole mess can be resolved with minimal issues.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: wolfdog01 on September 28, 2018, 12:06:54 am
Very happy about this thread, also kinda happy that only certain members can see it. Some of the people scared me with their violent posts and such. I'm still a little lost but I like reading through all of this. It sounds like you do have something in mind Raz, and I am willing to see what it is. Excited even. This gives some piece of mind and clarity. I am happy to hear you are still talking to Sura and I do hope everything works out. This game means a lot to a lot of people and I know no one wants to see it go. It's nice to see Red back too, for now. There was a lot of panic at first and I'm still a little upset by how vauge everything was brought out, but I think we will be okay.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: WolfQueen on September 28, 2018, 05:50:48 am
finally read through this thread. i appreciate that you gathered us up and answered some questions. i personally don't have any right now.
although i'm still bitter about what's happening/happened, i'm glad you are trying to patch things up with what you have left.
EDIT: not sure if something like this was answered before, but are you going to explain the "no-mod october" bot more (for a lack of a better name)? i know you kind of did but it was in a way that not a lot of users will get. i think it would be better if you would explain how the bot works in easier terms so the player base can understand.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Ame88 on September 28, 2018, 09:40:26 am
Well, reading through this, it surely is a hmm topic. More so in a interested manor, for me personally. Always fascinated to know more about things around here. Now before I say anymore, I must say thank you for making this thread to answer our questions. I sure am pleased to understand more of, well, basically everything about this, as well as everyone else here I would assume.
I don't have much to say as of right now, but I thought I might as well post before I lie my head down to rest. Had a rather long day pff.
For the General Chat concept, making it so that players have to wait to post again to advertise their group is a rather nice idea. If you could make it work, I would definitely give it a shot. I can see how it can help keep the advertising rage and frustration down.
As for Game Pools, I would have to agree. Not only does it help you get a general idea of what everyone thinks and feels, but it also allows a space for them to chat and speak to one another about ideas and options. Then the staff can see and consider, and play around with such ideas allowing them to come up with something a very wide majority of players, if not everyone will enjoy.
As for staffing questions, concerns, issues, and suggestions, I don't have much to say other than a few things. It is really hard picking and choosing people for staff, so do take your time and don't rush. A lot of pressure is on you, but it seems you're taking it rather well. I admire that pff. I don't have any suggestions as to who in particular that would make a good addition to a staff team, so I apologize for lack of assistance. All I can say is, as said before, take your time and consider many options. People who want to listen to the community, but also want what's best for the game, people who can consider ideas and talk about them to see if they can be worked out or not. Narrowing it down carefully to a satisfying select few I believe would be your best bet as of right now. I pray you can find the best options!
Happy to hear you're still adding the snowy map (I has forgotten the name of the beautiful snowiness, oops...) I really liked that map. Props to Lady_Alizarin and LaughingWolf, it looks just downright amazing. I know I'll be spending a lot of time there cx I do agree with you on wanting to release it whilst other things were being worked on. With prior experience seeing people wanting updates, getting updates, ext. ext., if you have a lot planned but a significant amount of time would have to pass by the time you would've been able to finish it all and release it, it would just be best in the long-run to give them a little something here and there to see and admire. It will keep them interested and coming back for more. So as for your comment; "I had suggested much more regular smaller patches giving the community time to focus on each peace as its released." I agree. Now, yes this can raise the issue of weather they will demand more updates or not, but, that's merely just a possible outcome that could happen. It doesn't mean that it will, 100%, but it's a possibility, just as hoping members will keep coming due to the almost constant updates. But with that new map I'm sure everyone will fall in love with it once it's implemented into the game. As for the deal with the older maps and trying to merge them into the newer maps, I did like that idea, but I did see how it was confusing and kinda strange. At first it felt great, due to the nostalgia shock, and hype to see the progress of all of it. But looking at it now I can see your reasoning. Personally, now that I think about it, I think if you were to add the old maps back into the game, then I'm sure you can find ways to connect them to the newer maps without having to edit and change them, other than adding in a portal and some decoration. It would be interesting to try and see how one could do that.
---
huff- Took me longer than I hoped to type that, nor did I think much would come out of my tired mind x) Person me if I seem to speak gibberish, I am quite tired lol Eager to see what you reply with, as well as everyone else!
Welp, that's it for me. I need to sleep XD
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: wolfdog01 on September 28, 2018, 02:29:09 pm
Well, reading through this, it surely is a hmm topic. More so in a interested manor, for me personally. Always fascinated to know more about things around here. Now before I say anymore, I must say thank you for making this thread to answer our questions. I sure am pleased to understand more of, well, basically everything about this, as well as everyone else here I would assume.
I don't have much to say as of right now, but I thought I might as well post before I lie my head down to rest. Had a rather long day pff.
For the General Chat concept, making it so that players have to wait to post again to advertise their group is a rather nice idea. If you could make it work, I would definitely give it a shot. I can see how it can help keep the advertising rage and frustration down.
As for Game Pools, I would have to agree. Not only does it help you get a general idea of what everyone thinks and feels, but it also allows a space for them to chat and speak to one another about ideas and options. Then the staff can see and consider, and play around with such ideas allowing them to come up with something a very wide majority of players, if not everyone will enjoy.
As for staffing questions, concerns, issues, and suggestions, I don't have much to say other than a few things. It is really hard picking and choosing people for staff, so do take your time and don't rush. A lot of pressure is on you, but it seems you're taking it rather well. I admire that pff. I don't have any suggestions as to who in particular that would make a good addition to a staff team, so I apologize for lack of assistance. All I can say is, as said before, take your time and consider many options. People who want to listen to the community, but also want what's best for the game, people who can consider ideas and talk about them to see if they can be worked out or not. Narrowing it down carefully to a satisfying select few I believe would be your best bet as of right now. I pray you can find the best options!
Happy to hear you're still adding the snowy map (I has forgotten the name of the beautiful snowiness, oops...) I really liked that map. Props to Lady_Alizarin and LaughingWolf, it looks just downright amazing. I know I'll be spending a lot of time there cx I do agree with you on wanting to release it whilst other things were being worked on. With prior experience seeing people wanting updates, getting updates, ext. ext., if you have a lot planned but a significant amount of time would have to pass by the time you would've been able to finish it all and release it, it would just be best in the long-run to give them a little something here and there to see and admire. It will keep them interested and coming back for more. So as for your comment; "I had suggested much more regular smaller patches giving the community time to focus on each peace as its released." I agree. Now, yes this can raise the issue of weather they will demand more updates or not, but, that's merely just a possible outcome that could happen. It doesn't mean that it will, 100%, but it's a possibility, just as hoping members will keep coming due to the almost constant updates. But with that new map I'm sure everyone will fall in love with it once it's implemented into the game. As for the deal with the older maps and trying to merge them into the newer maps, I did like that idea, but I did see how it was confusing and kinda strange. At first it felt great, due to the nostalgia shock, and hype to see the progress of all of it. But looking at it now I can see your reasoning. Personally, now that I think about it, I think if you were to add the old maps back into the game, then I'm sure you can find ways to connect them to the newer maps without having to edit and change them, other than adding in a portal and some decoration. It would be interesting to try and see how one could do that.
---
huff- Took me longer than I hoped to type that, nor did I think much would come out of my tired mind x) Person me if I seem to speak gibberish, I am quite tired lol Eager to see what you reply with, as well as everyone else!
Welp, that's it for me. I need to sleep XD
I agree with all of this.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Kastilla on September 29, 2018, 04:08:05 pm
While I cannot add on to anything else, I can say this has opened my eyes a lot. I may not be completely happy with the banning of my friend, but I can understand your motives for doing it. Still, I feel she was only the messenger.
I have no requests, as they've been spoken for me. I'm glad to have been in the loop of ones to see this thread. Honestly, I must apologize for thinking less of you Raz, you aren't as immature as you've been branded to be.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Ame88 on October 01, 2018, 05:38:14 am
Alright, I don't have much but I thought I'd throw this down.
Just curious, how would you have put the old maps back into the game, if that's something you wanted to do? Would you want to try and find a way of connecting them through the current Ficho tunnel? Or spread them out over different maps? Also, what brought you to the idea of this bot or program being able to help, and why do you think it will help?
By smaller more frequent patches, what do you mean? I take it as small patches and fixes like map issues or character fixes (if needed/possible), or just periodically adding in a map here and there. Honestly, I think it would be really cool to build a huge (okay maybe not that big, but whatever is possible) map of places you could go. Like adding onto the world even more and making a lot of biomes that connect together. I can see where that would get very confusing and hard to put together, but I can see that it would be nice to have in the long run.
Currently FH has it's typical plains area with flowers and grassy areas. It has it's islands and beach areas, a water grotto, and of course a cave to tie it all together. With this next update, we'll be getting our colder area back, the icy biome that was put together by Lady_Alizarin and LaughingWolf. Still an amazing piece. Honestly what I would like to see is a jungle biome, if it would be possible to work that into the game somewhere. I can see it branching off (no pun intended) from Seaside Grove from the top left corner. You know where that big hill is with a tree atop it, and a secluded path with potholes in the ground? Ihopeyoudo If not that's fine. But I can see where a portal to a jungle path that lead to, well, the jungle would be very neat.
Also I had an idea for where a desert area could go. There's an area in Cherika that has a somewhat rocky pathway, that then leads to a dead end that looks rather, well, dead. One could place a portal there that leads to a desert.
Thoughts?
Again pardon me if I speak in tongues of gibberish, yet again I am tired, and I apologize if these have been asked before. Seems there's a running trend today with me being oblivious. Just some ideas I had. Don't know if you would care for them or not, but I thought I might as well share.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: LaughingWolf on October 01, 2018, 05:46:25 pm
(just an FYI, the snow map is all lady's. Mine was a different one. I only helped troubleshoot or fine tune it along with the now-retired staff. Just wanted to make sure credit is being given appropriately)
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Ame88 on October 01, 2018, 07:34:52 pm
(just an FYI, the snow map is all lady's. Mine was a different one. I only helped troubleshoot or fine tune it along with the now-retired staff. Just wanted to make sure credit is being given appropriately)
Ahh alright, my bad! Thank you for clarifying~
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: LaughingWolf on October 02, 2018, 01:10:02 am
(just an FYI, the snow map is all lady's. Mine was a different one. I only helped troubleshoot or fine tune it along with the now-retired staff. Just wanted to make sure credit is being given appropriately)
Ahh alright, my bad! Thank you for clarifying~
no worries; just wanted to clear that up before misinformation got spread. lol
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: razmirz on October 02, 2018, 10:25:56 am
Sorry had a very busy weekend
@Wolf Queen I'll have a public answer out shortly(ish) for you.
@Ame If I'm honest I personally wouldn't put the old maps back. I believe the only reason people want the old maps back is because they want things to be as they were. However just sticking the old maps back in isn't some magical pill that's just going to change everything. Yes the old maps had things the new maps don't. But maybe that's where we should be looking to implement some of the concepts of the old maps in the new. Not simply copying what was there. Don't copy maps with flaws because at the end of the day that's why were came out in the first place. Instead look at those maps take from them what you need and embed a better map in the world. Of course you can add little mementos to the old map. That way the people that knew them have those little memories. The other issue with dropping old maps straight back in is that even if you make a perfect copy of the map due to the difference in people and world positioning it may not have the draw it once did. It may not populate the same. And as such it may feel like a dead map. I wouldn't want to take the memories of a full map people had and replace those with an empty one.
I do have a concept for connecting the maps together though it took me a long time to explain with diagrams to get the idea across to the staff. So I hope you don't mind but I'm going to skip over that. The bot came up on the basis that I was expecting the staff to leave. Tensions had been high for a long while before. I needed a fallback plan.
As to patches lets say we release one huge patch with loads of maps. People scatter round the FH world looking at all the maps. If on the other hand you release one or two maps at a time. People will come together to those maps. With the same amount of work you can create multiple occasions where the community comes together. It also shows continued development not just here's a patch there you go for the next so many years.
As for the future development you mention not really thinking that far ahead yet. There's still a lot going on. But things like that can be considered.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: razmirz on October 02, 2018, 03:21:36 pm
Sorry for double posting but would anyone have an issue if I were to make this thread public?
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Ame88 on October 02, 2018, 05:16:50 pm
Hm, alright. You're fine, we all have busy days XD
As much as I love the old maps, I'm gonna have to agree with you, you've pretty much explained my kind of thinking when it comes to returning something old. Yes at first I would love the old maps to make a return, but as I said, you had just explained how I feel about it in the long run. I hope others can understand that. It is a hard thing to accept what could happen if you put something old back, just as you said. If you remodel it, even that can throw people into a frenzy. Putting out little momentous would be find. As you said it gives them those little memories back.
Oh you do? Alright then, that's fine~ Me being curious I would of course love to know but, if you don't want to spend the time to explain again that's perfectly fine.
Exactly! Generally people prefer more constant updating to keep their interest, while others are patient and can wait. I'm more so in the middle of those field, as to where I'm find with a long wait, but I see it can be tedious when I really want to see what's next. After a long time it kind of waters down the eagerness after having to wait so long.
Yeah I was just throwing out ideas and such. Just put it out as food for thought. Much is still going on and I wasn't asking of anything.
You're fine xD I wouldn't mind if you put this out for public view. If anything I'd say go for it if you really want to. Hopefully the members can get a more clear view of things.
Thanks for answering~
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Astraea on October 02, 2018, 05:24:45 pm
@Wolf Queen I'll have a public answer out shortly(ish) for you.
@Ame If I'm honest I personally wouldn't put the old maps back. I believe the only reason people want the old maps back is because they want things to be as they were. However just sticking the old maps back in isn't some magical pill that's just going to change everything. Yes the old maps had things the new maps don't. But maybe that's where we should be looking to implement some of the concepts of the old maps in the new. Not simply copying what was there. Don't copy maps with flaws because at the end of the day that's why were came out in the first place. Instead look at those maps take from them what you need and embed a better map in the world. Of course you can add little mementos to the old map. That way the people that knew them have those little memories. The other issue with dropping old maps straight back in is that even if you make a perfect copy of the map due to the difference in people and world positioning it may not have the draw it once did. It may not populate the same. And as such it may feel like a dead map. I wouldn't want to take the memories of a full map people had and replace those with an empty one.
I do have a concept for connecting the maps together though it took me a long time to explain with diagrams to get the idea across to the staff. So I hope you don't mind but I'm going to skip over that. The bot came up on the basis that I was expecting the staff to leave. Tensions had been high for a long while before. I needed a fallback plan.
As to patches lets say we release one huge patch with loads of maps. People scatter round the FH world looking at all the maps. If on the other hand you release one or two maps at a time. People will come together to those maps. With the same amount of work you can create multiple occasions where the community comes together. It also shows continued development not just here's a patch there you go for the next so many years.
As for the future development you mention not really thinking that far ahead yet. There's still a lot going on. But things like that can be considered.
I also have to agree with a lot of what is said here. Having little patches every now and then might grab interest more and keep members around for the anticipation of seeing "what's next?". More teasers can be put out and the community can feel like they are more involved which I know was a big issue in the past; that they weren't feeling involved with things going on. At least that's what I heard from a few.
About the old maps, I have to agree with Ame. Logically, it does make more sense in the long run for the community. I also would love to see those map diagrams one day, I can possibly lend a paw and give my opinions. Just an offer I thought I would throw onto the table.
As for making it public? Maybe. That is up to you! I wouldn't mind so much. Thank you for the reply, as well, Razzy.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Edolicious on October 02, 2018, 05:31:27 pm
Only bit I'll say on the old maps is the fact that they were put up for download around the same time that this update came out, and there's quite literally nobody that spends time in them.
So incorporating iconic bits of old maps into new ones for hype, such as stone bridge, N/Z, etc? Love the idea. But I think the empty old maps speak for themselves in terms of popularity.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Kuri on October 02, 2018, 06:12:57 pm
Only bit I'll say on the old maps is the fact that they were put up for download around the same time that this update came out, and there's quite literally nobody that spends time in them.
So incorporating iconic bits of old maps into new ones for hype, such as stone bridge, N/Z, etc? Love the idea. But I think the empty old maps speak for themselves in terms of popularity.
Pretty much this describes my thoughts on the map situation.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: wolfdog01 on October 02, 2018, 06:56:03 pm
If I'm honest I personally wouldn't put the old maps back. I believe the only reason people want the old maps back is because they want things to be as they were. However just sticking the old maps back in isn't some magical pill that's just going to change everything. Yes the old maps had things the new maps don't. But maybe that's where we should be looking to implement some of the concepts of the old maps in the new. Not simply copying what was there. Don't copy maps with flaws because at the end of the day that's why were came out in the first place. Instead look at those maps take from them what you need and embed a better map in the world. Of course you can add little mementos to the old map. That way the people that knew them have those little memories. The other issue with dropping old maps straight back in is that even if you make a perfect copy of the map due to the difference in people and world positioning it may not have the draw it once did. It may not populate the same. And as such it may feel like a dead map. I wouldn't want to take the memories of a full map people had and replace those with an empty one.
I do have a concept for connecting the maps together though it took me a long time to explain with diagrams to get the idea across to the staff. So I hope you don't mind but I'm going to skip over that. The bot came up on the basis that I was expecting the staff to leave. Tensions had been high for a long while before. I needed a fallback plan.
As to patches lets say we release one huge patch with loads of maps. People scatter round the FH world looking at all the maps. If on the other hand you release one or two maps at a time. People will come together to those maps. With the same amount of work you can create multiple occasions where the community comes together. It also shows continued development not just here's a patch there you go for the next so many years.
As for the future development you mention not really thinking that far ahead yet. There's still a lot going on. But things like that can be considered.
I like the idea of smaller patches and bringing back little bits of the older maps. I had a lot of memories in Bonfire and Sky's Rim, so I would love to see like little easter eggs put in or even added the old ones back in but make it more detailed or something. I am worried about the thread going public just for the fact there could be some people posting just to scream and rant again. I mean hopefully all that has blown over but you never know.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: Valar.Morghulis on October 02, 2018, 07:03:05 pm
Sorry for double posting but would anyone have an issue if I were to make this thread public?
Maybe? It would be nice for people to see what has been said here and what are your plans with the game, but as wolfdog01 mentioned, I wouldn't want this to be another thread with people ranting and screaming again.
Title: Re: Welcome to hmm
Post by: wolfdog01 on October 02, 2018, 07:21:17 pm
Me and Esarosa were just talking about making it public and we think you should make it public then lock it. So people can see what is going on and if they have issues with it, then they can make a big post elsewhere for everyone instead of clogging this one up.