Feral Heart
Game & Forum Discussion => Game Discussion => Game Suggestions & Ideas => Topic started by: TheFourLinks on July 13, 2013, 02:29:58 pm
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Okay, I have come up with a theory.. if the 'source code' was truly needed to make the game, then that must mean that it is IN the game somewhere. Meaning, if the source code is located somewhere within the FeralHeart directory, it must be able to be found. Think about this.. how can Simba make 'updates' for FH(FH+), yet the mods claim that they cannot without the source code? If Simba can do it, it must mean that either a new source code can be created to update the game, or he has found the source code, meaning it can be found. All we need if my theory is correct, is a very skilled programmer/coder, whatever, who can search through the game's files to find the source code and decipher it, and then pass it on to the moderators, and updates can be added to the game. If the source code is not in the FeralHeart directory, then that must mean that it is not part of the game itself, meaning it is NOT truly needed for game updating. All you have to do to add more emotes: go to the emotes CFG file, and put in a new emote code. How do you think custom emotes were created? Or items? It's the same thing. I'm sure you could also code in prey or new chats if you honestly wanted to. I think someone should test out my theory, and search through the FH directory for the source code, or see if new things can be implemented into the game without it.
I apologize if this theory seems disrespectful in any way, shape, or form. It is, as I stated above, just a theory, although I would hope someone could test it. ~Vio
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Your theory is a very clever one, but the fact still remains, its Kovus game, so he has every right to keep it withheld from us (as frustratingly annoying as it is >.<)
If Kovu truly wanted us to make updates to the game, then he would have given someone the source code, but no, he didn't, which means he has left it how it is for a reason and does not wish it to be changed. My own theory on why Kovu left (Which I have not shared with any one) is that he might have left because he didn't want to release any more updates. Think about it, he redid impressive title, without wings, and without prey. If he really did want to put prey or wings in there in the first place, he could have easily done so. For the wings, he didn't really want to add them, but the community pressurized him, and he placed them in, I have a feeling that the same thing happened with the prey, but he was so frustrated, and he didn't want it to happen he left.
Meaning he did not want FH changed.
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The fact still remains... we were promised prey, and other updates, in which we never got. I think we deserve to have what we were promised. ~Vio
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I agree with what Kiaz has said about him being pressurized with adding wings to Feralheart. Kovu made the game specifically as is, meaning just a realistic canine / feline game was intended. Wings take away that realism, and because the community forced the weight upon his shoulders to add them, it sort of took away the whole point of Feralheart... I suppose he couldn't handle the change... because the FH he once knew is gone now and there's absolutely no way to turn it back without the community breaking out in anger, perhaps?
He probably left because he was unsure of what crazy thing the community would want next, and upon leaving he took the source code with him so that Feralheart won't become any more unrealistic or different than he wanted it to. It was his game, from what turned out to what he truly intended, to something completely different yet similar. I don't think he'd be too happy if the source code was extracted from the game itself or even FH+. No matter the suggestions those want implemented into the game, it just won't be possible... The staff could be in a bit of trouble if Kovu has found out maybe...
This is my theory, vaguely similar to Kiaz's perhaps. But the more I think about it, the more I feel is true. I mean, I love the way your mind works, FourLinks. But I don't think it can be done, sadly..
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While your points seem pretty interesting, there are some flaws.
First off, "Why can't we just get the source code from the game itself?" Is simple. KovuLKD made the game so the base coding files to run it could not be altered. Hence why when you find modifications, the texture files are simply named after the default ones. The files that probably have the source code in them are hidden away, I'm sure.
Have you ever seen IT server files? Or downloaded them? They're put in a file that cannot be opened. Why? Because the general public could mess with the game. Only the owner, and probably a few trusted admins, can edit the files after being given them.
For the "Simba must have found it" bit. From my understanding, after meeting him when FH+ was FIRST launched. KovuLKD gave him the source code for his own devices. So Simba, by my accusations, is a close enough friend of KovuLKD to get the source code.
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From knowing Kov when I first started, I was able to learn one thing.
The game itself is more different, FAR MORE, than IT. Some of the coding wouldn't work for him. He had finally figured out the wings, and a dash button sure. However, he had also claimed that prey would lag so terribly that it would crash the game altogether.
I mean, it seems pretty accurate when you think about it. What happens when a bunch of models gather in the game? Insane lag, at least for the majority. So when you have prey running around with complex and moving models, as well as health and other gaming content you get an overload of lag that would just crash the game.
There is no explanation as to why Kov left, many think he became board, the community was terrible, he got a better offer somewhere else, etc. I wouldn't really assume any are right because no one knows. I'd leave rumors as just that. Rumors.
"Editing without the source code" while you can easily make more markings, more items, even more emotes and possibly actions. To put it in a patch that everyone can easily download, like a game patch or to even make it a part of the game, still needs the source code. Hence why we have to download from media fire and manually put them in.
In regards to the situation, the poor staff are really stuck on the matter. Believe me when I say, if they could update the game, they would have done so the summer of the last update. Which was last summer, mind you.
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I think Owlus beat me to most of my point (xD), but I'll elaborate on what she said.
While your theory in its present state is a good idea, and I wish we could just follow through with it, there's a main factor here that isn't quite right, that actually is preventing us from carrying out this action.
That being, a source code is not something found in the game itself. If it were, Razmirz could just pluck it out himself and we'd all be happy with brand new updates whenever we wanted.
But, it unfortunately doesn't work that way. The source codes are what allows the game creator/head administrator to go into the game's encrypted codes and change them, as if changing the very framework of the game itself, the way no texture mod or additional emote could ever do. It's like adding on a second tail to your lion, so to speak (sorry for the weird metaphor).
FH+ was added during the time when KovuLKD was still here with us, and so he approved Simba's additions to the game, and once Simba had finished the work, Kov used his source codes to add FH+ into the encrypted files, himself. So, Simba never really "found" the source codes, per se.
But, as you mentioned with the current game mods that are being released by users all the time, we could theoretically update the game that way. However, without those source codes, we can't make everybody see the "go update FH!" pop-up appear when they try to log in and play, therefore it wouldn't be very efficient. People would be playing two different games, even-- and that would be chaotic and confusing, especially to members who come back after a long time and suddenly hear users talking about new stuff they've never even heard of.
We've thought of that, too, but it's just so inefficient that it may be more trouble than it's worth. Not to mention the gray area of legality in changing the game, since it is Kov's creation, despite him throwing his staff and his growing community out to the wind like he has for the past year.
So, you do have a good idea, but there's more to it than some codes found in the dark corners of your FH folder. I wish it could be that easy, though. ;P
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I have also heard that this 'source code' is found within the FeralHeart.exe application. With that information, it could be possible that someone with computer hacking/coding and whatnot experience could possibly access the game's coding through the .exe. I do know that somewhere, there are applications you can download that enable you to access such files that otherwise are locked. And also... I have another point to point out: Kov abandoned this game, correct? Meaning, he wants nothing more to do with it and has really just given up ownership. Think of it this way, if you throw something of yours in the trash and the garbage whatever takes it to the dump and crap, it is no longer really yours, correct? This is kind of the same thing. Now, I am not saying that Kov no longer has the rights to his game, but he has pretty much disowned it by abandoning it like he has.
We just need someone who knows how to hack locked files that cannot be usually opened.
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Yes, but from my understanding, he didn't really say he abandoned it. If he said he had completely abandoned it then that may be so, but this is more like he's hidden it away in storage, or left up in the attic so to speak, meaning he still has legal rights to own it and we must recognize that fact.
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I agree on the abandone thing. At least for me he has kicked it aside.
However.
An .exe file is written within a software that encodes your game and writes everything that is needet to tell the game what to do. This game is run by ogre, that game code is -specific- written to work with the ogre engine.
Since staff desperately wants to update the game, but has not done it (because we cant), you see that these "see how i see it, is easy isnt it?" is everything but easy.
If everything would be so easy with cracking up the files to get the proper code out of it, then no game on the world would be hackproof and everyone had a free version of a full standing game to get their hands on and change things like they want But thats not how it goes.
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Well... it may be true that of course it won't be easy, but it is possible. SOme hackers who I have heard of... I KNOW they would be able to do it, though I don't think they can be found over FH. The ones I am speaking of are the group known as Anonymous.. I'm sure that if they can easily hack into the government... they could hack into the FH .exe file. It's possible.. though I don't think it's possible to contact them however.
Although... I do know someone who is very likely to be able to do this job. A friend of mine has a girlfriend, who is friends with a very skilled hacker, by the name of Lenny. I could ask her to contact him with the permission of the admins, and he could find the source code. Lenny is about as good as anonymous, from what I've heard.
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Since hacking is highly against our rules, i dont think that we support this even if it would benefit us. Breaking our own rules is just so very wrong.. at least i as a staff member would by no circumstances stay in such a staff that ignores their own rules oO
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Ah, but that is where you are wrong, Tigg... the 'hacking' mentioned in the rules is hacking another person's account. That does not apply to game files, from my understanding... ~Vio
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Sorry for the double post, it won't allow me to edit for some reason.. stupid computer... but also: If hacking game files was against the rules, then there could be no 'custom emotes', or 'custom markings' or anything like that, as it can be considered hacking the files.
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@Vio, please note this quote from the rules,
Altering Game Files
Do NOT alter any of the decrypted files or codes for the game that might affect the maps and/or gameplay. Giving you an advantage or not, the files should remain intact unless you are given a permission to change them. If you are caught doing this you will most likely face a longer ban.
Hacking accounts is a given, but it explicitly forbids hacking encrypted files, as well. (Plus... Tigg's been here in the staff for a while, she would know her rules, dear! xD)
And custom emotes/markings are just modifications, and are not messing with encrypted codes.
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Ah... I hav not noticed that one, sorry. I thought Tigg was speaking of the account hacking. Although, take note of this: "Unless you have permission to do so." Meaning.... the staff can give permission, and it won't be breaking the rule.
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I don't think we should mess around with the Source Code. Sure, updates would be nice, but It's KOVU's game, and so I believe the community should respect his decision to not take the source code into it's own hands. If he wanted us to have it, he would have given it to us. It would be... low, I think, to just take it.
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It was low of him to just abandon us.
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It's HIS game, though. He can do whatever he wants with it, really. Even though it wasn't the best action, it's still the one he chose. We should respect his choices, even if some of us don't approve of them.
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He kicked his game aside, which is pretty much the same as disclaiming it. I believe the staff should be allowed to update the game themselves now, since they are the ones helping keep order within the game and such, whereas Kovu does NOTHING. I honestly think FH should belong to the staff by now. ~Vio
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So without KovuLKD, our game can have no major update. So we are just stuck here. And this thread is similar to another thread I made a couple days back. But I am still mainly focused on what happened to him. Not even him and FH. I think that maybe he died. OK, no, but you know what I'm getting at here?
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^
Yes... I even thought he may be dead too...
Sometimes... I think that... KovuLKD is just preparing a major big update for the game... which would took years to finish it.. but no.
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Yes, it is quite possible that Kov has passed. After all, he never gets on Skype, is never on Facebook, or ANYWHERE else on the internet. It is quite possible that Kovu is dead.
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That would be quite horrible, but how old is Kovu? Anybody?
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So without KovuLKD, our game can have no major update. So we are just stuck here. And this thread is similar to another thread I made a couple days back. But I am still mainly focused on what happened to him. Not even him and FH. I think that maybe he died. OK, no, but you know what I'm getting at here?
I've wondered that, myself, but he's alive and well as far as some mutual contacts have told us. He's still been contacting others as of late, but he refuses to have any contact with Red, Razmirz, or any of the staff.
It would've been nice to give him the benefit of a doubt, say maybe he really was just super busy, but as of right now he's alive and well, and just being stubborn and unreasonable with us for some reason.
The staff feels the same way you guys do, believe me.
@Vio, we understand. I honestly think Raz should get the codes, so the staff as a whole could care for the game the way we want to, but unless Kov gives us the codes, we have no way of officially updating the game. And that's just the situation we're in right now.
However, as many have stated previously, we do at least have a game that is somewhat customizable, so we can add items, markings, and we do have events and contests to enjoy, and we have a server host that can keep things running optimally for us all.
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Yes, it is quite possible that Kov has passed. After all, he never gets on Skype, is never on Facebook, or ANYWHERE else on the internet. It is quite possible that Kovu is dead.
If someday someone who is friend of Kovu in real life come to FH, see the name and said what happened to him... if he's alive or dead. (Not mentioning fakers)
*modifies*
@Light Did you mean that who contacts him isn't part of FH community?
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My friend's girlfriend has already contacted Lenny, so if we get the okay, we will have the source code by tomorrow. It's about time the staff gets what they rightfully deserve. THEY care for this game when Kov does not. As far as I am concerned... Kov has given up ownership. If you will allow Lenny, we will have the source code very soon.
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Certainly Kovu has to have heard of all of this by now. Just why won't he come to us? I'm going nuts. It's like seeing your dog telling it to come here, but it just sits there all like NOPE. (More weird metaphors) I understand Kovu has lost interest, but if he gave the source, he would never have to work on it again!!! Doesn't he get it?
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If the moderators agree to let my friend's girlfriend's hacker friend hack the game files for the source code, we will not need Kov to give it to us. We can get it ourselves.
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...Are you guys really thinking that Kov might be dead and that's why he may not have been around for over a year? o.O" That's kind of extreme.
Stubborn and unreasonable? Uh...he has every right to not give the code out if he doesn't want to, really. Doesn't matter if he works on the game or not. Doesn't matter his reasons. They should be respected outright instead of it being labeled something like "stubborn" or "unreasonable". He doesn't need a reason if he doesn't want to give out the code.
Regardless of whether he's here or not though, it still is his game, and rifling through files or editing things without his permission both violates copyrights and is extremely wrong. Just be happy the game is still around to even play than the things that could have been around.
From what I know of Kov over the years he wasn't the one who specifically promised ANYTHING. He may say "sure" or he may say "I'll think about it" but I'm pretty sure he's never flat out said "I promise that I'll do this". However, it is STILL his game, so he has every right to go back on promises of updates if he wants, because what he decides with his game goes [or SHOULD go].
In honesty were I in his position at the constant badgering of having wings in the past I would have laughed at people and said "No" outright. He shouldn't have had to make updates or anything because people wanted it, he should have been able to say "no" and let that be the end of it.
He's a human being who made a game for people to play and should have been able to make it in how he envisioned it and let it stay that way, not a machine that mechanically follows requests from people. :/ Saying he's 'abandoned' FH is dehumanizing considering the effort he put into it, because in honesty as I've watched over the years it looks more like FH abandoned HIM, and only focused on the materialistic values of his game than what he personally felt should happen with it.
It's unfortunate that the game can't have any updates or anything, but hey, it's still here, so that's better than nothing. It's best to appreciate what one has than what can be; life's too short to go around lamenting on things that border impossibility.
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I suppose after all of this. I guess we have permission, it's almost like life or death, but not as serious. If we do get it. Feral Heart can continue and become greater. Cross your fingers.
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It's like seeing your dog telling it to come here, but it just sits there all like NOPE.
I cracked a bit in that part... but it is sad, really.
@Vio Who is Lenny? O_o"
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If the moderators agree to let my friend's girlfriend's hacker friend hack the game files for the source code, we will not need Kov to give it to us. We can get it ourselves.
Absolutely not.
You saw in the comment above, trying to "hack," change, or access any encrypted files for the game is absolutely forbidden, and I ask that you throw that idea into the scrap heap right away.
@Ranulf, individuals from his old IT days that still keep in contact with him were talking about how he'd spoken with them and said he was alright and doing well a few months ago.
He's just refusing to speak with anyone connected with FH. For all we know, he could still be out there, just under an entirely new identity. He is alright, though, so his life isn't something to be fearing. As I recall he was in his 20s, anyway.
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Yes, Shusuke. I understand. But now, how come he won't to anybody on Skype, facebook, etc.!? He probably gets bothered a lot, yes. But for the love pete can't he just "hello, I'm alive, I lost interest in FH, I will not give out source, bye bye." Just so all of this crud can end? This is getting out of hand, really.
@WhiteLightHeart OK. Is it just me, or is this like Onowl/Superfeesh gone wrong? Just wonder why he won't speak.
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I agree... Now I think he's really busy with something... maybe a new game (NOT Feral Tales?) will he develop? Maybe he "bought" some develop classes to improve their amazing skills and then left FH? Maybe... maybe... eww. *tries to think in something*
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Umm.... what's Feral Tales? :/
Anyhow, who is really THAT busy?
Doesn't he have the smallest amount of free time?
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FeralTales is a facebook app he was supposedly developing, bringing FeralHeart into Facebook so they could play with their friends on there and such.
-is sort of trying to stay out of this, but still stalking the thread- 030
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I really don't know. Just =writing= what I'm thinking about.
Feral Tales is a Facebook application based in FH and IT being developed by Kovu. I don't know if its still in development; but I think no.
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Checked it out. Dr. Fluffy Pants Ranny says it's dead. OK, back to Kovu.
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We don't know why he won't speak to us. The staff wonder the same thing, and our best guess is that he's decided he just wants to let the community go entirely to its own devices (as rotten as the idea itself sounds, especially if the staff hadn't continued to do their jobs and recruit more staff), but we simply don't know.
And, yes, a simple hello to let us know what the deal is would be nice, and would end the confusion for us all, but when it comes down to it he seems to refuse to even do that.
I do know that the last I saw of him over a year ago, it was amidst some trouble in the community, when everyone was noticing him going quiet and not thinking of much (be it updates or whatnot) for the game, and after the community seemed to be protesting, he obliged and gave us wings sometime that December. Sometime after that, he went poof. However, due to the fact that I wasn't very active on the forum back then, I don't know any details regarding it.
Perhaps he got sick of everyone yelling at him to keep his community moving forward, and he decided to throw it down? That would be my guess, since I know a community can get very mean (note the angry messages in our past couple of updates), but after this long I don't know why he won't just come back, say his farewell and let things keep moving on.
(Again, we all feel the same.)
I haven't heard much on Feral Tales, though, adding onto that part of the conversation.
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Regardless of his motivations to not stay in contact with anyone here is his own choice, and it's in his rights to not privy anyone with the knowledge if he wishes. As rude as it seems that's the truth.
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In my opinion I think most developers don't like the community "screaming" at him saying to add wings. It would be PRETTY unrealistic. Now everyday I see like 3-7 people with wings. It's like a waste of time to him. Poor Kovu, he may be sad now, since he worked VERY hard just to add wings.
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See, thats my theory on why he left. He didnt want to add prey, but he said yes, then regretted it, so he left.
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It's amazing if you visit his DeviantART. His comments are spammed with people's FH problems. Perhaps another reason he left? 50 comments a day with angry rabid people whining about how their game is crashing would irk me to no end. But a note to those people, help sections exist for reasons you know. (also I <3 the wings, I spazzed when they got added, I wanted to hug Kovu X) )
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Whitelight, the rule about not editing the files also has this little bit: "Unless you have PERMISSION." Meaning, in truth, the staff can GIVE permission, since they RUN this game. All my friend needs is permission from the staff. And I know you all want the source code. I know you want the game updated, so why not agree, let my friend get you the source code, and update the game?
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Can we give the source to somebody else than your friend? Like the staff?
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@TheFourLinks I'm thinking that Raz or any member of the staff doesnt knows the source code a lot... like still no updates after discovering it...
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My friend is the one who is going to find the source code, and gice it to the staff since the staff don't have the hacking skills needed to find it.
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No, I didn't mean that, I was going to mean that the staff or Raz can't figure it out how to put the correct characters to new updates.
I am 50% sure that it will fail... but it's your decision though.
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-shrug- Hacking is still a wrong thing to do. And kind of disrespectful to Kovu. But after all this, I kind of want to say this is his punishment. But that's horribly disrespectful. A great game can't just sit here and do nothing.
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Yes... this game needs updates... in-game, it seems like a ghost town. There were three people... THREE PEOPLE, at Stone Bridge earlier today. Just three... this game really needs to be updated, and I am surprised the moderators don't want the source code, when I have a friend who could gladly get it for them...
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The mods may not want it, well. it's Kovu's game. What if somebody hacked into your game? (also on a side note I put my cursor to the right and there was a map called PawPrint Emblem and thought it said Fire Emblem, haha funny because I really li- ok off topic) There is like 700 people online though.
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But is still a game with many active users :) no worries, some players leave, other join the fantastic world of FH.
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Wait, are we talking about KovuLKD,
or the FH community :S
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... i didn't figure that.
Anyways I will be stalking {*high five* like a stalker} the topic unless I find another thought.
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In all, Kovu just won't speak. Reasons unknown why yatah-yatah-yatah.
blah blah blah
Let's just let him be.
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I really think the staff should have the rights to the source code. THEY watch out for this game, and keep order and crap. THEY do everything, but what does Kov do anymore? Nothing. Kovu does NOTHING for this game. I think the staff should get the source code in which they rightfully deserve.
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...but annoying him to give the source code isn't going to solve the problem.
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Kovu didn't do nothing, he CREATED the GAME. Without him, we wouldn't HAVE a game to play. We should all be grateful towards him, and taking the source code by force is not a way to show it. What if he comes back? "Oh... we hacked the game because you weren't around and added a lot of things without your permission lol sorry."
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But still. Kovu still could have problems. I have a horrible feeling he is having a mid-life crisis. OK, maybe not. But give the poor man a break. Give him until December (he'd be gone for 2 yrs.) if he's not here by then, well then KovuLKD has left us. v_v*
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What long jump said.
Also, if he really comes back and sees FH just very... different, he will quit FOREVER, no warnings. Avoid hacking. It will be worst, TheFourLinks.
Ranulf: Yes I hope so. But I feel that he will not come back until FH is forgotten, and he remakes it. O is it my head. Or is it my sleepy face??? I'm gonna sleep in real, I will check this thread tomorrow.
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Good night. Sleep Tight. Don't let tigers bite. (umm... sorry for that)
Put your feet in Kovu's shoes TheFourLinks. What if you created a game and left then you come back and greeted with a bunch of weirdos hacking your game.
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Yes, he made it, but do you ever see him moderate? Do you ever even see him online? When was the last time anyone has seen an update from him, or even a "Hi"? It's been over a year. The staff deserve to have the rights to take over. And we aren't gonna make him give it to us. My friend can find it himself without Kov, and give it to the mods and admins and whatnot.
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So what if he hasn't been around, if he doesn't moderate? Without him there wouldn't be a community, the staff wouldn't have ever been hired in the first place. Kovu has copyright and if we take over the game that is, in a way, violating it. Not only is it wrong to, in a way, 'steal' the game from him, but it crosses a few legal lines as well.
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Still rude. You know, what if he is secretly planning a big update and giving us a big surprise? Maybe not. But let's note try. Too risky for my taste. He would hate us forever if he came back and everybody hacked it. Yes he doesn't do much, but can we really blame him? He lost interest and we can't just go all out on the game and turn it into our own.
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This discussion has turned into a debate whether or not to hack FeralHeart, which is a direct violation of our rules, and those involved can have very serious consequences for doing so. This is enough of the "I'm going to get the source codes" talk, since it can't be done without LKD, and if it was possible, Raz would have done it.
The main questions have been answered thoroughly, along with some nice discussion for the most part. However I don't see too much reason in letting this go on, since we all feel the same in the fact that we wish LKD would come back to update the game.
Hacking is not the answer, though, and two staff members have replied with a clear "no" in regards to this action. With that I'm locking this topic to prevent any further discussion of it.