Feral Heart

Game & Forum Discussion => Game Discussion => Topic started by: Lady_Alizarin on October 03, 2013, 05:59:55 pm

Title: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: Lady_Alizarin on October 03, 2013, 05:59:55 pm
Title: Re: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: Tigerheart08 on October 03, 2013, 06:56:50 pm
     Lol It's so true though. I see this constantly and sometimes I think "What the hell is the point of training you then."
Title: Re: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: cloudfire on October 03, 2013, 08:42:39 pm
 So true.
Title: Re: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: Ex0rcist on October 03, 2013, 09:03:31 pm
I've been noticing this a lot recently, and sad to say that I'm probably one of those 'fast learners' or 'expert apprentices'. However, it is difficult to admit that you wouldn't want to learn the same thing over and over again within every clan / pack / pride or any form of group. Once you actually learn how to use your character in spars or battles, or how to use them for healing or hunting, the information sort of remains in your head each time you roleplay, whether it be with a different character. I have troubles avoiding the action of meta-gaming when in a training session. I do have to agre that it takes the fun out of the roleplay, but it is understandable that it isn't much fun to learn the same thing again and again.
Title: Re: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: Fallenleaf on October 03, 2013, 09:26:22 pm
I'm sad to say I was one of them, at first. It's only when I had bevome familiarized with RP that I sarted RPing with characters such as Voidsoul. His first training was harsh, his mentor mentally tricking him. The point of the training was to stand against his fears, by closing his eyes and imagining the situation. He made it far, until he pictured his friends dying and coming back to 'life' as zombies. The vision crushed him down, since then he never really liked death, was even distant from his friends.

Soulshatter, though, was a character of mine that I'm quite proud of. He had amnesia, forgot much things, some say that he used to be a kittypet, as he'd no hunting skills. He never met the mentor he was assigned to (Ah, inactivity). Not knowing if his mebtor would come one day, he trained by himself, often failing at first. He even refused the help of a few senior warriors. When he caught his first prey, he was overjoyed. As an adult, becoming a mentor, the deputy hepled him train his apprentice. The tom even learned a few things himself, such as how to stabilizing his weight through his body to run faster. It didn't last long, though. His lost one of his hindleg.
--
Anyway. I think it's really anti-RP to be a fast learner, or perfect from the beginning. It ruins all the fun.
Title: Re: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: darkknight on October 03, 2013, 10:53:56 pm
Anyway. I think it's really anti-RP to be a fast learner, or perfect from the beginning. It ruins all the fun.
Well, this pretty sums up what I would say about the whole thing. Out-of-character wise, I would get why people take to being a "perfect" apprentice because of them being so familiar with it. There is being a good apprentice and being too good. It's alright to be a fast-learner in some things while in-character, as long as it's balanced out in a believable way in the environment your're playing in.

Also, if you are getting bored by tedious training, why not mix tactics up a bit? Instead of sticking to the old training, why not simply try out something new, that is if the mentor gets approved by their leader and such. Both a mentor and apprentice can do this, work together to plan a nice, creative way to train. That way, it wouldn't seem so mundane if you have done so over and over just with different characters.
Title: Re: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: OreoHeroz on October 03, 2013, 11:06:05 pm
I've seen this happen multiples of times, and I'm just like, "What the heck? Why does every apprentice know everything?" Not normally, everything, but most things. When I RP as an apprentice, I often put my character missing the prey, accidentally hurting him or herself, etc. I don't really like making my characters look all "know-it-all" or anything. Not to boast, just saying. >.<

It can get a little annoying or annoying when people make their characters as apprentices like, "Slowly stalking the mouse, the apprentice never touched a leaf nor a twig - he was in a perfect position. When the mouse paused for a moment, he launched himself at the prey, clamping his paws around it and killing it intensity. He was sure he would be the best hunter, no matter what." or - I saw this happen one: "The apprentice threw herself at the warrior, her unsheathed claws scorching down the sides of the enemy, drawing out blood as she snarled. Dodging the warrior's outstretched claws, she spun around and closed her jaws around the warrior's neck, snapping it. Slumping down, the enemy fell at her paws, life's breath gone from him as dull eyes stared back. She had won the battle." I would be like, "Seriously? An apprentice can kill a warrior? Aren't warriors supposed to be a little more powerful?"

I think we need to be a little more realistic, not making apprentices or any animal/human know everything. It's pretty unfair to others, and it sort of leads to powerplaying or Mary/Marty Sues.
Title: Re: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: WhiteLightHeart on October 04, 2013, 12:21:28 am
Oof, this one is so true. It's basically been summed up pretty well by the others here, the fact that having a "perfect" character really takes away from its originality.

Not to mention, the mentor and apprentice would ideally (in my eyes) form a bond that could only come from the mentor teaching his apprentice what it takes to become a warrior and defender of his clan.

This said, if a mentor stuck with his student through trials and triumphs, late nights hunting, early patrols and even in the thick of a battle over territory, imagine what sort of profound affection that apprentice would have for his mentor? His Clan would even mean so much more to him (or her, of course!), and they'd look back during the roleplay at times and think, "Wow, my mentor taught me what it takes to survive here-- it's because of them I'm a warrior now!"

But, conversely, if this "expert apprentice" was so perfect that they didn't get anything wrong, they would instead look back and say, "Wow, my mentor sat there and rambled on about training, while I was so perfect that I didn't need it!"
Definitely exaggerating that one, but in all truth, what else could they say?

No way that would be as heartfelt as a true story between mentor and appentice. I like this thread, Lady~
Title: Re: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: Jango_Fett on October 04, 2013, 12:55:28 am
'How did you learn that so Fast?' 'Oh, I'm just perfect that way.' Really, So, No Flaws, no Weaknesses, Nothing?  Whats the point of RolePlay when you are PERFECT?!
Title: Re: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: unnbrellas on October 04, 2013, 01:19:12 am
OMG THIS THREAD NEEDED TO BE MADE SO BADLY YOU DONT EVEN KNOW

Here are 2 kits I mentored once:
     Kit 1: They caught evrything. Best fighter. Stunning swimmer. PREFECT.
     Kit 2: Lazy, only really got up to rebel and play pranks on his mentor (Me)
But yes Kit 2 was my favorite? How strange.

I personally like kits witha wide variety of personality. Like the wanna-be warrior whose is a failure. The scardy cat. The ex kittypet who can hardly do anything. The list goes on.....
Title: Re: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: Abomine on October 05, 2013, 06:53:45 am
To me, it seems like either one of two things:

1) What others have already mentioned; these players are used to this and just want to get it over with, even though their characters are supposed to be learning all of this for the first time.

2) They are inexperienced rpers who are trying to make their character appear especially badass, when really all they're doing is (probably unintentionally) making their characters out to be Mary-Sues/Gary-Stus.
Title: Re: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: JackJackleHound on October 05, 2013, 08:08:39 am
An apprentice striking out to be the warrior protege, not only that, but have you ever witnessed a Perfect Apprentice healer?
[ The young Ap-Medic shoved -A list of herbs- in the wounded warriors mouth, causing the pain, and blood to stop pulsing from the she-cats body] Really?
 Some people don't understand the fundamental importance of  experience evaluation. when you really look at it, allowing your character to experience flaws and failure actually helps in molding of the character's chrisma. It's sad to think that people don't allow that to happen.
Title: Re: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: Jango_Fett on October 05, 2013, 03:44:59 pm
An apprentice striking out to be the warrior protege, not only that, but have you ever witnessed a Perfect Apprentice healer?
[ The young Ap-Medic shoved -A list of herbs- in the wounded warriors mouth, causing the pain, and blood to stop pulsing from the she-cats body] Really?
 Some people don't understand the fundamental importance of  experience evaluation. when you really look at it, allowing your character to experience flaws and failure actually helps in molding of the character's chrisma. It's sad to think that people don't allow that to happen.

Exactly, Because you learn more by mistakes, then victories.
Title: Re: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: Wizardmymom on October 08, 2013, 11:26:25 am
Ah, this type of topic.
This topic is seriously needed, though more IG then just for conversation. XD

But, back in the day, I was in a WC RP and was that perfect little appy.
No one cared, but now I join as a kit and do those boring kit things.
Then I do that awesome training stuff.
I know one of my charries never even GOT to being a warrior because they had to fight in a battle, and her inexperience ended up getting her killed.

The 'all knowing' meddie apps and the 'all mighty' warrior apps just kinda ruin an RP.

Being a mentor is one of my favorite things about a WC RP, but some apps just ruin that.
I once almost left an RP because either:
(A)
They would know everything
(B)
Leave 5 minutes into training because I frowned on their all-knowingness.

I mean, really?
Anyways... -Poof-
Title: Re: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: femalecreature on October 08, 2013, 11:34:52 pm
True, true...

I remember one time, I roleplayed as my apprentice named Dawnpaw. There were two or three other apprentices; I forgot their names, so we'll go by App1, App2, and App3 (or perhaps subtract one or two, give or take.)
App1: The young she-cat leaped on the thrush, instantly killing it. She picked it up and snorted at Dawnpaw.
App2: (App2)paw's paws caught a mouse just as it ran away.
Me (Dawnpaw): A bounding leap brought Dawnpaw close to a small, scrawny mouse; it darted away between her paws, skittering across the Autumn leaves. "Mouse dung," she hissed, her claws scraping against the ground in frustration. ((Guys, really... we've just become apprentices, we don't know how to hunt, fight, or anything.))
App1 & 2: No, we're just smarter than you.))
App1: She snorted at Dawnpaw and whispered, "She's real dumb, she couldn't catch that mouse" to (App2)paw.
Me (Dawnpaw): Overhearing, she snapped around. "I'm not dumb," she retorted hotly. "I'm just beginning, and so are you. You just got lucky!"
App2: "No, we're smarter than you" his sneered at the stupid she-cat (were not lucky, were experts)
App1: Yeah, we're good at this. Dawnpaw's mentally ill!))
And so, they ran off and "gossiped to the Clan" about how Dawnpaw was "mentally ill" and "unable to catch the scrawniest mouse."

Of course, the leader saw their "gossip," seeing as they, too, were in the group, and were nearby and saw their Local chat. They were kicked for being unrealistic and harsh to another Clanmate.
True story. Although they'd been kicked, they complained to me via whisper that it was my fault they'd been kicked from the Clan, and proceeded to harass/threaten me about it, calling me "unrealistic" and "illiterate," seeing as I'd not been the absolute best at hunting or fighting.

I only said:
"You can't be serious, guys... apprentices can't do that on the first day. Maybe a decent mouse on like, the fortieth definitely not their first day as an apprentice."

To which... they said... they reported me.

LOLWUT? x'D
(They probably didn't, as my guess was they didn't know how to.)
Yay for LOOONG rant story!


P.S.
Don't go saying, "You should've reported them" and all that jazz. I tried. Really, I did, but seeing as it was a Clan with 50+ members all typing in Group/Local at the same time, I couldn't catch the whispers, no matter how much I tried to scroll up - it was always spammed. I tried turning it off, but at the time, other people were whispering me, too, so it was basically impossible.
e3e
Title: Re: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: Akita Silver on October 08, 2013, 11:42:57 pm
It doesn't seem right, I mean apprentices are supposed to not get things right the first time, and it's ok :P  It's almost completely unfair and not fun when someone gets everything right the first time, and then they go off and then turn into like an evil cat then like auto kills xD it's stupid and I like the apprentices that fail a lot then get better at a steady pace :P Nothing against fast learners. But automatically learning the move and being perfect is like... unfair? :c
Title: Re: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: Sir Equius on October 09, 2013, 09:08:36 pm

Don't go saying, "You should've reported them" and all that jazz. I tried. Really, I did, but seeing as it was a Clan with 50+ members all typing in Group/Local at the same time, I couldn't catch the whispers, no matter how much I tried to scroll up - it was always spammed. I tried turning it off, but at the time, other people were whispering me, too, so it was basically impossible.
e3e
D--> Well they did deserve to be kicked from the group. So they got what they diserved and pretty much made you the scapegoat for their errors. I'm sure no one really likes roleplaying with those Mary Sues anyways.
Title: Re: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: ~|Cookie|~ on October 09, 2013, 09:53:58 pm
I am still pretty new to this game and such. But when I RP on one of my WC RPs I have noticed.a few of the other apprentices getting EVERYTHING right the first time. It's quite annoying.

But anyways it really ruins the fun of the RP.
Title: Re: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: Jango_Fett on October 09, 2013, 11:00:28 pm
I am still pretty new to this game and such. But when I RP on one of my WC RPs I have noticed.a few of the other apprentices getting EVERYTHING right the first time. It's quite annoying.

But anyways it really ruins the fun of the RP.

ikr?  it can be, OH SO annoying! and then you have to watch them do it *Paw Face* Ergh, I don't see how the mentors HANDLE it!


Can't get my head around it, can you?
Title: Re: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: ~|Cookie|~ on October 10, 2013, 01:12:45 am
I don't know how they can handle it either. *Face desk* I mean, come on people! We have to atleast learn SOME things.
Title: Re: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: trinitylovespink on October 12, 2013, 06:19:51 pm
 I can relate. I never Rp in F-plains anymore because of all the "Prefects and Map claiming"
Title: Re: Expert Apprentices and Fast Learners?
Post by: Jango_Fett on October 16, 2013, 10:58:04 pm
I can relate. I never Rp in F-plains anymore because of all the "Prefects and Map claiming"

Yes, That is why most 'literates' have left for mapped roleplays as well :P