Feral Heart

Game & Forum Discussion => Game Discussion => Topic started by: darkknight on November 07, 2013, 04:04:06 pm

Title: Humans are the devil?
Post by: darkknight on November 07, 2013, 04:04:06 pm

(http://juliekenner.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/dr-evil.jpg)

So, I've been noticing a pretty common idea with groups or just the individual person playing their character. I started to get the idea that people use humans in their backstories or their plot ideas negatively almost all the time. "Humans killed my family." "Humans destroyed our homeland." "Humans ate my daughter." And so on and so on.

I've yet to see a simple story to give a human's good side. Come to think of it, I have a few bios that include humans, but they are either referenced or played in a such a way that gives them credit for how my character is in a positive outlook.

I just wanted to see if anyone agrees that humans are always downgraded in the animal world, I mean, humans are mammals, too. So again, do you think that humans are usually played as the real "big bad wolf" for most people's stories? Or do you think not? What do you all think about it?   

Title: Re: Humans are the devil?
Post by: TheFourLinks on November 07, 2013, 04:37:08 pm

Well.. the reason for this most likely is, humans are, a lot of times, 'bad guys' to the animal world. There are hunters, for example... many of them. Many animals are hunted and killed by humans with guns, and humans are the reason many animals have gone extinct in the wild, and some have gone extinct completely, such as the Thylacine/Tasmanian Tiger. Also Barbary Lions. All killed off by humans.

Because of this sad fact, humans are portrayed in bad light. It is to be expected... not many people are very kind to animals nowadays. Now we're always seeing videos and news stories of animal abuse, poaching, etc.

~Vio

Title: Re: Humans are the devil?
Post by: TurtlezSoup on November 07, 2013, 04:46:42 pm

One of my characters, Jackie, was actually a domesticated dogs that lived with an elderly couple, but they both passed away. They actually played a good part for me, for me most of my characters don't even know what an animal is! XD

By yes, I hate seeing "humans killed m so and so" "humans mistreated me" etc etc: it gets really repetitive for me and just gets annoying eventually because it come off most of the time as being uncreative (unless they have a twist too it). But they do make t sound like humans are evil when really, not all humans are.

Bt like Purple said, it comes off that way for the bad things poachers/hunters have done.

(This probably made no sense, meh)

Title: Re: Humans are the devil?
Post by: Lady_Alizarin on November 07, 2013, 05:10:43 pm

I see this all too often in some character bios. "Humans killed my family", "Humans hunted my kind near to exctinction. Now I'm the last one." I got to admit that it gets pretty old. I don't have too many characters that mention humans in a negative way.... except for Melina. Humans saw her as a nuisance, since she is a man eating beast. So they captured her and held her captive in a cage.

I don't have any characters with the sad sob story of "My family was killed by humans." That's just too cliche and too negative. I've had my animal characters play with human characters before, and there relationship with each other wasn't negative at all.  

Title: Re: Humans are the devil?
Post by: meeeea on November 07, 2013, 06:23:48 pm

Title: Re: Humans are the devil?
Post by: hugrf2 on November 07, 2013, 06:48:47 pm

This always just annoys me... I've had some human characters and characters that are humanoid I guess in a way somewhat, such as furries. Other characters, not sure I've made a character that hated humans exactly.. Not sure if I will, either. I understand humans do do stuff like poaching and stuff, but we aren't all mean. Some of these stories can get a bit old... In other words, I agree with you. I can't think straight right now, and I'm on this darn phone again, so sorry if I didn't make sense.

Title: Re: Humans are the devil?
Post by: Silhouette on November 07, 2013, 07:15:45 pm

When I thought about this, I realized its kind of funny. Most of my character's don't have these issues. Most of my characters who have had any dealings with (or even a remote idea of what is a human) human beings have either been positive, neutral, or more often they just... don't understand them. (and often don't care.)

Caylx, one of my canine characters, has had a close relationship with people. Sure, she has no idea that she was originally plucked from the forest as a young puppy to be raised to eventually be slaughtered for her fur but then again, do real animals know that either? Of course not. Circumstances changed, the guy's daughter became attached to her, so she wasn't slaughtered. To her, that family is the greatest thing since sliced bread and that's all she knows.

 My human characters on the other hand, often are affected directly by this "human phobia." One of my human characters who had been (if only temporarily) turned into a wolf turned out particularly interesting because she ended up on the recieving end of a lot of hate when fellow critters realized their friend was "wolf in sheep's clothing" or in this case, a "human in wolf clothing." Thing of it is, she's not a hunter. She's not a logger. Shes just a regular human teenager who was a victim of circumstance. Likewise, another char of mine who has been human throughout, Hailey, has been blamed for the "sins of mankind" due to animal's bad past experiences.

Really when it boils down to it, I think it really relies on the /players/ controlling the reality of how their character percepts things. Sort of like what I said about Calyx. There is NO way she could have known she would have been slaughtered for her fur. Some players on the other hand kind of stick their hand into the OOC background information of their own character and "magically" let them know these "dark little secrets" when really.....odds are, they'd never know.

In real life, does a fox on a fur farm know its going to be slaughtered for its fur? Probably not. Do the deer necessarily know that the /humans/ set their forest on fire if they were in their little home in the thick of it when the blaze started miles upon miles away? Probably not.

And now its time to get a bit technical. X_X
In real life, humans hunt, sometimes to the point of hunting to extinction but....wouldn't any other animal in the same position of "power" I guess you could say,  do the same thing?

If there is an overpopulation of the predator species and not enough prey to support it, predators would continue to hunt prey. No doubt about it. They're not going to suddenly go vegetarian and due to specialization through evolution they may not be physically capable of tapping into other food resources.  

One of two things will happen. Predators will either

A. Hunt prey to extinction and then be forced to utilize another food source (IF they can) OR be forced to extinction themselves.
B. Hunt prey to near extinction, and then have their numbers violently drop off when there isn't enough to support themselves and then gradually build back up as prey numbers build back up.

We don't call the predators "morally wrong" for doing this and hunting their prey to extinction. (However usually they don't hunt prey to extinction because illness/weather/other predators keep their numbers in check but that is beside the point) Yet when a human does the same thing, we consider it "wrong." Usually its because we, unlike animals, understand potential consequences of doing this and often have other means of avoiding this situation.

Really when you think about it, humans are out-competing MANY species on the planet at once rather than a few at a time (which would be the case in most creature's evolution) and that usually doesn't happen too often. But when you get down to it, that's all it is, out-competing other things. Animals don't have that great of a grasp on science and they don't consciously know how things "work" in nature. They don't feel guilt for killing each other. There is no "evil" about it.

So by knowing science/evolution/biology, there is a moral "wrongness" of us turning the planet into our footstool, but from an animal's (hypothetically speaking) perspective, personally, I think they would most likely have NO idea, that we're doing any sort of wrong because they don't understand the science, they ONLY thing they see (IF they see anything at all) is that we are trying to do the same thing they are, compete with them. Without the scientific background, its just a competition and the mass majority of the species on the planet are on the losing end against us. But by nature's standards, that's "fair." The biggest resource hog/utilizers usually takes home the glory and ends up with the greatest amount of individuals of its species in existance. Think about how many bugs there are on the planet. They destroy a good number of resources for their own existence too. Can't say I've ever thought of a cockroach as "evil."

 But its so easy for people to anthropomorphize the scientific knowledge that we as humans don't HAVE to hunt animals all the time/that we dont HAVE burn their homes/that we dont HAVE to use as many resources as we do/etc. "magically" into their animal characters. And with that, they also anthropomorphize  the knowledge of the moral wrong that goes with it.  Since they have already given them a lot of human characteristics (ex: speech, human perception/emotion, etc.) already, they do it anyway.

So if you want to be realistic about this, in a RP, EVEN if the water quality turns bad, all of the fish end up dying, the moose suddenly disappear/their carcasses are laying around with their horns sawed off, rabbits are hanging by strange metal contraptions from the trees, even with foreign smell of "human" in the air, the odds of your wolf-character who has never seen a human being in his life, figuring out that "man is doing this to me" should be pretty darn slim.

Sure, canines are great at making associations between things but there is nothing present to make the connection. All he knows is he's hungry, the water makes him sick, the fish are floating in the river and rotting, there's some species (humans) he's never smelled before, and the moose are lying about dead and missing parts of their anatomy. That is /it./ He doesn't "magically" know its the work of humans. (He /might/ make a connection with the odor and know to avoid places with that smell but that would be the extent of it.) And THAT is what a lot of people end up doing. They let their characters "magically" know.

I think I've said enough for now. /End rant. X.X;

Title: Re: Humans are the devil?
Post by: TheFourLinks on November 07, 2013, 08:28:34 pm

Quote

Bt like Purple said,

My name isn't Purple ;w;

Title: Re: Humans are the devil?
Post by: gold feathers on November 07, 2013, 08:29:19 pm

Considering that humans do kill and ruin wildlife in real life and clear out forest just to create paper and resources so that we can survive, resulting in extinction of some species, I think humans are considered danger in the animal world. Yes maybe humans are mammals but very cruel ones, of course don't get me wrong ya floofs because are are those ones that save the wildlife and protest against animal abuse etc, or maybe protect the arctic like the arctic 30.

but some people decide to base their characters on a realistic approach of the real outside world, which includes humans demolishing wild life and their habitats. This does make a great role-play back round to some and very interesting due to it's realism.

I myself like a tad of realistic back story which includes such content, showing human cruelty. It might be that animals do see humans as a threat and as you have said, they are downgraded but for a purpose. It's truth that takes over the backround of one character, and this does give people something to think about. Because by putting a sad and tearful story into one character and blaming the fault on humans, makes humans want to change something. I know I'm going a bit off-topic now, and we don't wanna hear some physiological debate happening haha. So I'll finish right there.

Title: Re: Humans are the devil?
Post by: Jango_Fett on November 07, 2013, 08:47:38 pm

Erk, I hate it when people are all like, 'Ooo, Humans are BAAAD! They killed my family! Humans are bad!  Kill them with me please!'
Its old, its cliche, and their really just insulting them SELVES!
Its been WAY over used as of late, and I know I know I know, Humans aren't perfect, but, animals aren't Either.

~Warrior, The Human

Title: Re: Humans are the devil?
Post by: whitewolf223 on November 07, 2013, 09:49:08 pm

Quote from: FoxPhilosopher on November 07, 2013, 04:04:06 pm

(http://juliekenner.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/dr-evil.jpg)

"Humans ate my daughter."   

I love this. Makes perfect sense. People do seem to hate humans these days...

Title: Re: Humans are the devil?
Post by: Smilodoncat on November 07, 2013, 10:15:21 pm

I have noticed this as well, and I agree it is very overused and cliche. However, I believe it can be done alright.

I actually decided to play with this trope when making my character, Amazon.
Amazon was raised on a bile farm (In China and Korea they farm bears for their bile to be used in traditional Asian Medicine). She finally was given the chance to escape one day, and eagerly took it. Amazon didn't think much about humans after that. Yet the wilderness was much to harsh for her, and she was near death when she was found by a kind old man. This man was a Scientist, working on a revolutionary new drug. A drug involving nanobots. The old man loved nature and decided to try and save the bear using his medicine. And it worked. However, the nanobots where programmed for humans, not animals. And in the process, Amazon was given human like intelligence. With her new intelligence, Amazon found she needed a scapegoat for all her problems in life...and humans fit the bill.
Amazon for a while turned into a sort of terrorist, destroying human property and killing humans for no good reason. She had an organization on her side at one time. Eventually she began to realize what she was doing was wrong, and her efforts fell apart.
Now she has mixed feelings on humans. She still hates them with a passion, yet she owes them her life as well.

Title: Re: Humans are the devil?
Post by: nubeees on November 08, 2013, 12:03:23 am

As Chrysalis said, it can be done well, but is very cliche. Take my main character, Helius for an example. I purposely made Helius a sort of conundrum to confuse a lot of people. Helius was born, and grew up in a lab, sent out to Bonfire island as a part of a survival experiment, to see if a cheetah injected with nanobots and implated with an artificial intelligence (A.I.) would have a higher suitability then natural cheetahs. So while Helius was in fact experimented on, or more accurately, is being experimented on, he wants to return to the laboratory, where he'd probably just lounge around for the rest of his life. XD
With Helius I try to usually make humans seem like the 'good guys'. :3

Title: Re: Humans are the devil?
Post by: Fellthefox on November 11, 2013, 03:43:20 am

The two legs arnt so bad...for the most part atleast. They smell kinda funny in my opinion. Look a bit cold. Why are they sol bald? And they seem to bad(How would I know?? Lets not go there~).
I think its just a group of apes Id rather avoid. Rather be a fox and all. 

Title: Re: Humans are the devil?
Post by: pecchara on November 11, 2013, 10:00:42 pm

I've seen too many dogs/wolves/cats abused by humans setups to count. Humans do seem like they'd be a potential antagonist, but mostly in domestic animals. It seems that way to me because of the terrible reality of animal cruelty. For feral animals, humans' environmental impact plays a somewhat similar role. Then there's a mix of fantasy in both domestic and feral animals where humans can be antagonists.

If I think about it, it sounds silly but intriguing. I wonder about why that's such a common trope. Maybe it has to do with reversing perspectives in RP - instead of playing a human, play a lion, bird, or dog and explore how the average human becomes an oblivious (or intentional) menace to the wilderness. Then again, there are other villains in the wilderness besides humans, so who knows?

Personally, I don't think it's a bad  thing. It would be interesting to see animals like rodents or herds, with a positive-developed human bond along with dogs and cats.
However, I'm not tired of the big bad human trope just yet.

Title: Re: Humans are the devil?
Post by: Fallenleaf on November 11, 2013, 10:55:03 pm

Title: Re: Humans are the devil?
Post by: Abomine on November 12, 2013, 12:36:27 am

Humans are easily one of the most misunderstood animals on the planet Earth, and they seem to get a lot of flak, especially from the "animal-lovers" community.

When people say, "OMG HYOOOMANZ SUK!!11!! I HAET HYOOMANZ!11!! KILL THEM ALL!!11!" I just want to give them a "you're joking, right?" look and say, "You know YOU'RE a human, right? Your family, your friends, your favorite bands, your favorite artists and writers, you know that THEY'RE all humans, right? Do you hate them, too? If you want all humans destroyed, will your family and friends be the first to go?"

Yeah, the whole "humans killed my family" thing gets old in character bios. Yes, humans are a pretty screwed-up lot who do a lot of evil things to each other, themselves, and their fellow creatures, but we are capable of a lot of good as well. Which is why I like to see bios of characters who have had good encounters with humans, like a stray dog who has fond memories of a previous owner who is now deceased, or a kittypet who is proud of his luxurious lifestyle. It's refreshing. :)

Title: Re: Humans are the devil?
Post by: Hennessy on November 12, 2013, 01:44:21 am

I'm going to admit this, I have one character who has had a bad problem with humans but it was a somewhat accident. My charie Shamrock's home was devasted by a forest fire when I camp fire went out of control. But he ended up saving a young child so he doesn't hate on human really. xD

But I see what you mean, most people use humans in a negative way and I agree it's a bit cliche.

Title: Re: Humans are the devil?
Post by: Jango_Fett on November 13, 2013, 05:45:53 pm

Quote from: ~|Demonic|~ on November 12, 2013, 01:44:21 am

I'm going to admit this, I have one character who has had a bad problem with humans but it was a somewhat accident. My charie Shamrock's home was devasted by a forest fire when I camp fire went out of control. But he ended up saving a young child so he doesn't hate on human really. xD

But I see what you mean, most people use humans in a negative way and I agree it's a bit cliche.

 +Floof for you my friend :)