Author Topic: We Need Leadership  (Read 17385 times)

Offline DylanCheetah

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Re: We Need Leadership
« Reply #50 on: April 15, 2021, 09:33:56 pm »


I have to say one thing, and that's about the wrongful bans.
There was a very specific public incident here on the forum here that was the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of players here. That is what jumpstarted fhn (place holder for fhu), not any in game moderation.

Fhu is a direct result of Raz' half-ass leadership.
-----------


That said, I believe I can speak for both moderation and development teams when I say you all need to stop bringing up fhu here. Both teams are mutually exclusive and are no longer have the same ideals, drive or concept. Their only similarity is the base game. Please stop dragging fhu into these arguments; both teams just want to drop it and move on.

It's time for the community to do the same. What this team does, has absolutely nothing to do with fhu, and vice versa.

I want both games to succeed. But for that to happen, you guys need to stop with the drama every six months.

Hey there, Jace! FHU was brought up by a curious community member and we immediately avoided stirring up any drama regarding it c:

I wouldn't call this thread an argument by any means, it's constructive in hearing what the community's thoughts are, thank you for your comments, but please keep negative talk regarding FH and their past with FHU off the thread ^^
Bloo is right. And there is no drama here now. We'd all like to keep it that way too.

Offline Telluric

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Re: We Need Leadership
« Reply #51 on: April 16, 2021, 02:03:40 am »
I don't have much to say as the other staffers have stated/explained a lot of things very well. There are a few things I'd like to clear up, however

There have been claims of wrongful bans being handed out, as well as in-game kicks, etc. and there was even plenty of pages of evidence to prove this, Tumblr/deviantArt being the most popular. Of course, these situations were denied & ignored.

Users have claimed to be banned for "no reason" from the start of the game. Staff always save screenshot evidence whenever a user is punished for breaking rules. We encourage users to contact us to clarify any questions they may have. However, many players never contact us and go straight to telling their friends or mention it on their dA, Tumblr, etc. These posts rarely include legitimate evidence. The reason why staff don't respond to them is due to our punishment policy: we do not share any information with anyone except privately with the affected player. We want to help our players, but it is not our responsibility to scour the internet for these claims and explain the reasoning to the user. Not only is it impossible to find every single one, but the player should have received their reasoning as they got booted from the game to begin with. If a player has questions, our inboxes are always open and we are happy to assist
These policies have been in effect since the beginning of the game and have been enforced until today, and will continue to be enforced


When I talk about wrongful kicks & bans being handed out, I had to speak generally. I don't think the specific members of Staff that I know and have seen evidence of them doing this, would appreciate being named, as some people that linger in these forums for hateful purposes may slander them elsewhere.
...

I have to say one thing, and that's about the wrongful bans.
There was a very specific public incident here on the forum here that was the straw that broke the camels back for a lot of players here. That is what jumpstarted fhn (place holder for fhu), not any in game moderation.

Fhu is a direct result of Raz' half-ass leadership.
-----------


That said, I believe I can speak for both moderation and development teams when I say you all need to stop bringing up fhu here. Both teams are mutually exclusive and are no longer have the same ideals, drive or concept. Their only similarity is the base game. Please stop dragging fhu into these arguments; both teams just want to drop it and move on.

It's time for the community to do the same. What this team does, has absolutely nothing to do with fhu, and vice versa.

I want both games to succeed. But for that to happen, you guys need to stop with the drama every six months.

haven't seen drama that isn't completely interpersonal/between 2/3 people or so in months here, pal. most everyone has the memo and it's not anyone's place to get ruffled if someone on this site has harmless questions about fhu and being redirected there to seek answers on their own. that being said i don't take to it being mentioned outside of that context very well. everyone still has sores.

i don't entirely disagree with you on some stuff but this whole thing came off really aggressive, don't know if that's the way you meant for it to go but i haven't seen anyone in this/the community-staff feedback thread get cranky, things have gotten much better and if anything i feel like i can trust staff here which is a feeling i ain't felt in a long time.

back to the topic at hand, i can't say much else beyond i agree with pretty much 99.9% of the replies added, i'm especially grateful with kiki for being so incredibly transparent with how the staffing system works and hope that the behind-the-scenes stuff like new admins comes to light soon, it's kinda exciting!
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Offline G4RG0YLE

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Re: We Need Leadership
« Reply #52 on: April 16, 2021, 10:56:03 am »
I don't have much to say as the other staffers have stated/explained a lot of things very well. There are a few things I'd like to clear up, however

There have been claims of wrongful bans being handed out, as well as in-game kicks, etc. and there was even plenty of pages of evidence to prove this, Tumblr/deviantArt being the most popular. Of course, these situations were denied & ignored.

Users have claimed to be banned for "no reason" from the start of the game. Staff always save screenshot evidence whenever a user is punished for breaking rules. We encourage users to contact us to clarify any questions they may have. However, many players never contact us and go straight to telling their friends or mention it on their dA, Tumblr, etc. These posts rarely include legitimate evidence. The reason why staff don't respond to them is due to our punishment policy: we do not share any information with anyone except privately with the affected player. We want to help our players, but it is not our responsibility to scour the internet for these claims and explain the reasoning to the user. Not only is it impossible to find every single one, but the player should have received their reasoning as they got booted from the game to begin with. If a player has questions, our inboxes are always open and we are happy to assist
These policies have been in effect since the beginning of the game and have been enforced until today, and will continue to be enforced

This is because there have been wrongful punishments handed out & this has been an ongoing issue for several years.
You state that your inboxes are open but again, I'd like to point out that a lot of Staff over the years have not made themselves sound approachable - while I'm certain they attempt to encourage communicative behaviour. Not all Staff come across this way but FH's audience is typically very young and they easily misunderstand the tone behind text and the sudden ban/kick messages that pop up... for some, it's quite scary (although I accept the fact that it's necessary).

It's not the policies being enforced that's the problem.

When I talk about wrongful kicks & bans being handed out, I had to speak generally. I don't think the specific members of Staff that I know and have seen evidence of them doing this, would appreciate being named, as some people that linger in these forums for hateful purposes may slander them elsewhere.

Staff are people, just like the rest of the community. We do make mistakes. In the event that it does happen, it is reviewed, discussed, and fixed within the staff, and the affected player is contacted about any decisions and other new information
Outright wrongfully placed bans are rare. However, if a user strongly feels their case is an exception, they are to contact staff with evidence, and it will be handled privately

You & I both know that this isn't the entire truth.
During my time on the Team, bans were placed against players that then went on to challenge the case & that case was entirely ignored or met with a 'they're always a trouble-maker, just ignore them, kicking up a fuss as always' amongst the Team themselves.
This hasn't been a continuous cycle and I'm sure this has changed over the past 2-3 years, but the fact that it was a thing in the first place is what causes concern on my end.

This is also a Leadership issue (to keep it related to the original topic). While we were all trained in some way, some of us were trained by one person with a specific way of doing things, while others were trained by someone else. & To add, they trained by what they thought was the best way to train, there was no step-by-step training guide for them to follow to ensure everyone received the same training.
I don't know if this has changed or will change, but I sincerely hope so if not done already.

Our policies have been passed down from staffer to staffer, and an eligible staffer will be taught how to train incoming MITs. All training every MIT has received, regardless of who taught them, stems back to one person's teachings at the end of the day. If staff feel a specific policy/approach is no longer effective, it will be reviewed by the team and a new "guide" will be decided and effective immediately

I will quote this idea that I'd placed, as I've nothing else to say on the matter and, the point still stands:

Another issue I'd like to bring to the table is Training of Staff.
I don't doubt that Staff receive a very professional method of training. But I, for one, didn't during my time of appointment. The training itself was decent but, when I was working with other Staffers, it was clear that someone had been taught one thing and I'd been taught another, so decisions & actions were causing communicative issues & arguments to occur.

I'm sure this has been improved since and I've no doubt our current Staff Team are now all on the same boat but, I'd simply like to personally recommend that One specific person is assigned the role of Training new mods. A document should be made regarding topics to cover (i.e When to move threads (giving scenarios for MiTs to practice with, etc.), lock threads, when to warrant a warning via PM in-game or simply just kick/ban and how the context/use of profanity/or other things will equate to ban length) & this document should only be accessible to that person doing the Training, simply to avoid the spread of false information via other Admins/Global/Moderators. That way when things fall out of line, it is down to that Trainer to correct or relay the information back to this document and, you get the jist (hopefully).

If the Trainer later steps down from their position on the Staff team, then this document should be sent to the person taking their place. They should also receive a briefing as to what exactly to say, how to say it, etc.
Recording the training of each MiT could be worth the while, but I wouldn't suggest it be a requirement. More of like an optional recording, so that Administrators & the Server Master can confirm that individual was definitely trained. Just in case they take the wrong steps, yudda yudda.

Reason why the document should only be accessible to that specific Trainer is because I wouldn't want to see it edited by others and it becoming confusing, out of order or deleted by accident, or end up in the hands of the wrong people and then publicised.
Obviously, the Server Master needs to be the only ideal other one to have access to the document, just so Razmirz can overlook exactly what's being said & done, given the fact that he typically approves/disapproves of most if not everything and he also lacks the time to be able to train MiTs himself.
If there are going to be two Administrators again, maybe they can both play a part, but I don't see it being very fitting as they'll have different things to say. Sticking to one is kind of the go-to for now whilst the Team itself is very small.



That said, I believe I can speak for both moderation and development teams when I say you all need to stop bringing up fhu here. Both teams are mutually exclusive and are no longer have the same ideals, drive or concept. Their only similarity is the base game. Please stop dragging fhu into these arguments; both teams just want to drop it and move on.

It's time for the community to do the same. What this team does, has absolutely nothing to do with fhu, and vice versa.

I want both games to succeed. But for that to happen, you guys need to stop with the drama every six months.

No one is being "dragged" into this from FHU. The battle has already been dropped.
But, I'll quote myself again to explain the reason why the game's name keeps being mentioned. It isn't because "we want drama every six months."

The reason why I mentioned Feral Heart Unleashed is because FH is technically it's birthplace. It didn't start in Feral Heart itself (as in start as a group in-game and expand to a game of their own), no, but it is named after FH with 'Unleashed' afterwards to indicate a new chapter. New staff, new everything, but essentially parts of the same community. Not everyone migrated but most of the people who've been around long-term have seen it as a new home, but a similar environment, to start over.
There are similarities that everyone can deny as much as they like, it doesn't change the fact that FHU/FH are very often confused in terms of difference, or how one came about.

I'm not going to stop making the comparisons, sorry. Why I won't is because it further validates the point I'm trying to make... it's not an attack or any sort of "this game is better than that because of ____" it's just to add onto the discussion being had here.

Bloo. was correct in saying I only mentioned it out of curiosity as well as concern.
We need leadership as well as establish a baseline where we acknowledge the factor(s) of what's caused FH to go quiet and how we go forward from here, after losing a lot of Staff members who valued FH's future just as much as we do, but have given up.
I'd love to know how FHU is not a factor.
I don't mention the drama apart from the odd bit & bob to further a point I'm trying to make and opinion I'm trying to express. I want to see FH make a comeback, but this cannot be done without knowing what else is out there so we can ask ourselves... What do we do, to encourage more players?



Nevertheless, I'm glad we can all have a relatively civil discussion going on in this thread. I want to apologise if I've ruffled anyone's feathers thus far... it's not my intent!
I only want to see FH make a huge comeback and be strong again.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 10:58:17 am by G4RG0YLE »

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Re: We Need Leadership
« Reply #53 on: April 16, 2021, 02:20:22 pm »
Quote
This is because there have been wrongful punishments handed out & this has been an ongoing issue for several years.
You state that your inboxes are open but again, I'd like to point out that a lot of Staff over the years have not made themselves sound approachable - while I'm certain they attempt to encourage communicative behaviour. Not all Staff come across this way but FH's audience is typically very young and they easily misunderstand the tone behind text and the sudden ban/kick messages that pop up... for some, it's quite scary (although I accept the fact that it's necessary).

It's not the policies being enforced that's the problem.

I know I haven't been apart of the staff team for as long as the others - but during my time (about a year at this point with a hiatus in the middle) I have yet to see one of the other staff sound unapproachable. I personally attempt to help as much as possible and constantly give people my Discord and such to make myself even more reachable - and I know that some other staff have done the same. If there is a way that we can make ourselves more approachable, please let us know. Giving us those tips on being more approachable could be really useful and could help us adapt to the changing culture and community of this game.

Quote
You & I both know that this isn't the entire truth.
During my time on the Team, bans were placed against players that then went on to challenge the case & that case was entirely ignored or met with a 'they're always a trouble-maker, just ignore them, kicking up a fuss as always' amongst the Team themselves.
This hasn't been a continuous cycle and I'm sure this has changed over the past 2-3 years, but the fact that it was a thing in the first place is what causes concern on my end.

Again, this is something that I have yet to see. Yes, it is really bad that it happened in the first place but people do make mistakes and that happened in the past. As Ame has been stating a few times - us newer staff members haven't really done that so why are we taking the blame for that bad bunch in the past? Our current staff team, though small, seems to me to be handling this all well. I won't discuss much because of rules and such - but in the past few bans that I have seen the ban is implemented and a message is sent to the user giving them a reason and time frame.

If you state that you want us to change then we need the opportunity. We have changed but it seems as if the people in the past keep dragging us back down to those previous views. I do apologize if that came off as aggressive - I promise that is not what I am going for it is just difficult to portray tone via text.

Quote
I will quote this idea that I'd placed, as I've nothing else to say on the matter and, the point still stands:

So this way of training is how it actually used to be done (sorta - not as in depth as yours) - Redlinelies used to train just about everyone and it proved to be extremely successful, but it was a very slow process during the time when the game was growing and there was a desperate need for more staff members. According to Raz's "The Future of FeralHeart" post - he later realized that it was a bad idea to split the staff team up with the different methods of training and such. While those teams to technically remain split - we do still work together as a team through a common Discord - and we learn off of each other.

I guess this can be easier with a smaller team now and we could start from scratch - creating that training plan you were speaking of from the four current members of staff, but that decision is not solely up to me.



There is a lot to go over in this whole post. I'd like to thank everyone for keeping things very civil. G4RG0YLE, I wouldn't worry about ruffling anyone's fur because you have maintained an air of professionality in this thread - and thank you for that.

Offline G4RG0YLE

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Re: We Need Leadership
« Reply #54 on: April 16, 2021, 02:55:45 pm »
I do apologise if it does seem that the new Staff seem to be on the receiving end of a fire started by others. But when you take the position on the Staff team, sadly that is the risk you take due to the current flow of underlying toxicity in the community. I respect that you've probably all come across some hate over the time you've been appointed and if I could take that hatred away I would, I'd turn it into something more reasonable & respectful all the while delivering criticism worth bouncing off of.

When I speak of unapproachable Staff is mostly comes from previous Staff, moreso current.
I have yet to see either of the new Staff come across as unapproachable & that I can adhere to, but I do speak in general. I don't like to be specific and point fingers because that's not fair on anyone and mentioning specific times when someone did this or that... that's stirring a pot that has so far been nonexistent in this thread. So, when I do talk about unapproachable Staff, it's not really a point being made towards the new Moderators... given that they haven't actually had a chance to show much of anything.

As for opportunities, I respect that. Those currently speaking within this thread - I feel are the ones (myself included) that want to give you the opportunity.
However, it is a struggle to see the changes when nothing is really happening (again generally speaking - in-game, forum-wise, updates, etc.)



Training-wise, the Staff doesn't have to be necessarily split now that I've sat back and taken time to analyse a bit differently. The Staff is too small to cope with a split like that, but - the Trainer idea remains. I guess it can't really have a conclusion made on it until we meet our new Administrators and/or additions to the Team in other aspects.

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Re: We Need Leadership
« Reply #55 on: April 16, 2021, 03:32:43 pm »
I do apologise if it does seem that the new Staff seem to be on the receiving end of a fire started by others. But when you take the position on the Staff team, sadly that is the risk you take due to the current flow of underlying toxicity in the community. I respect that you've probably all come across some hate over the time you've been appointed and if I could take that hatred away I would, I'd turn it into something more reasonable & respectful all the while delivering criticism worth bouncing off of.

When I speak of unapproachable Staff is mostly comes from previous Staff, moreso current.
I have yet to see either of the new Staff come across as unapproachable & that I can adhere to, but I do speak in general. I don't like to be specific and point fingers because that's not fair on anyone and mentioning specific times when someone did this or that... that's stirring a pot that has so far been nonexistent in this thread. So, when I do talk about unapproachable Staff, it's not really a point being made towards the new Moderators... given that they haven't actually had a chance to show much of anything.

As for opportunities, I respect that. Those currently speaking within this thread - I feel are the ones (myself included) that want to give you the opportunity.
However, it is a struggle to see the changes when nothing is really happening (again generally speaking - in-game, forum-wise, updates, etc.)



Training-wise, the Staff doesn't have to be necessarily split now that I've sat back and taken time to analyse a bit differently. The Staff is too small to cope with a split like that, but - the Trainer idea remains. I guess it can't really have a conclusion made on it until we meet our new Administrators and/or additions to the Team in other aspects.

I do see what you mean - but I am sure any member would agree that the past does not much apply to now. It does seem a bit unfair to blame the current for the faults of the past. We desperately want to get away from that previous view but it becomes difficult when we have made the changes needed and the view still remains due to the past.

Personally, I have seen the improvement within the staff team being more vocal on the forums and within the game, but it is difficult for us to do the updates for reasons already stated within this thread. Nonetheless, it is important that the community does see our changes which quite a few already have.

Offline Bloo.

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Re: We Need Leadership
« Reply #56 on: April 16, 2021, 03:55:08 pm »
I think with a thread like this, which seems mostly to be aimed towards the newer staff team, it's almost moving backwards to bring up the actions of the old ones. I can see where the community may be worried that the past may repeat itself, however we are trying to do everything we can to assure ya'll that it isn't going to happen. There are improvements that can be made, yes, and we are constantly working on things like the training system and what not. I am all for being completely transparent with ya'll, but the way staff train new staff isn't entirely the community's concern ^^" I know you guys want good staff now and in the future, but so do we! So please have some faith in us that we are doing what's right in the most efficient and beneficial way possible to all parties.

This thread should be  discussion about us new staff taking on a big leadership role, and doing better than what's been seen in the past. We should be focusing more on the future, and less on the past.


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Offline G4RG0YLE

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Re: We Need Leadership
« Reply #57 on: April 16, 2021, 04:13:04 pm »
The past is only brought up - at least by me - as more of a highlight of what we wouldn't want to see repeated.
Not really a poke in the ribs to be like "yeah but you guys suck because you do this" but more of a "be careful regarding this & this, as it can result in this" kind of thing.

I do think the training of Staff is something that should only be the Staff's concern, but the training does affect how the community will react & perceive those that are supposed to be looking after them. I don't doubt for a second those currently in their position have been and will continue to do a wonderful job, but I do speak as I'm... I guess it's best described as a little bit 'shaken up'/fearful of FH's future. Obviously, how the Staff is trained isn't the main factor for that, but it was something worth highlighting nevertheless.

As for leadership roles, I do hope our new Administrators are chosen carefully. It's not a responsibility just anyone can take on, but I can see only good people being given that kind of weight and I look forward to seeing how it pans out, despite everything!

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Re: We Need Leadership
« Reply #58 on: April 16, 2021, 04:27:17 pm »
The past is only brought up - at least by me - as more of a highlight of what we wouldn't want to see repeated.
Not really a poke in the ribs to be like "yeah but you guys suck because you do this" but more of a "be careful regarding this & this, as it can result in this" kind of thing.

I do think the training of Staff is something that should only be the Staff's concern, but the training does affect how the community will react & perceive those that are supposed to be looking after them. I don't doubt for a second those currently in their position have been and will continue to do a wonderful job, but I do speak as I'm... I guess it's best described as a little bit 'shaken up'/fearful of FH's future. Obviously, how the Staff is trained isn't the main factor for that, but it was something worth highlighting nevertheless.

As for leadership roles, I do hope our new Administrators are chosen carefully. It's not a responsibility just anyone can take on, but I can see only good people being given that kind of weight and I look forward to seeing how it pans out, despite everything!

Ahh my apologies! You can be assured that we are looking at this discussion and making sure we do not repeat mistakes of the past. Our goal is to create an open relationship with the community so not only we can gather information and input, but also so the community feels as though the staff is behind them and open for communication.

The training does have an impact on the community - though I do believe that at this point we all are on the same boat and whoever does get the lovely title of admin will be able to train new moderators in the same way the rest of us currently run/are trained. I have my own personal recommendations on who I would love to see as an Admin, but sadly they have already declined.

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Re: We Need Leadership
« Reply #59 on: April 16, 2021, 04:33:22 pm »
Quote
I have my own personal recommendations on who I would love to see as an Admin, but sadly they have already declined.

I thought only [current] staff members are promoted to become Global Mods/Admins?

Can members vote on who can be our next Admin? Or at least, give names who can be the next Admin?