Author Topic: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal  (Read 12556 times)

Cilantro

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Re: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2020, 03:52:07 am »
We can calm things down and work it more relaxed if we agree all.

Awww. That is such a nice idea. So short and simple. If only everyone would see it that way. +floof

We are calm. We want to cooperate. Please stop assuming we are screaming at y’all.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2020, 03:55:59 am by Cilantro »

Offline DylanCheetah

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Re: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2020, 03:58:47 am »
We can calm things down and work it more relaxed if we agree all.

Awww. That is such a nice idea. So short and simple. If only everyone would see it that way. +floof

We are calm. We want to cooperate. Please stop assuming we are screaming at y’all.

I don't think you are "screaming" Cilantro. We just have differing opinions perhaps?

Cilantro

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Re: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2020, 04:01:15 am »
We can calm things down and work it more relaxed if we agree all.

Awww. That is such a nice idea. So short and simple. If only everyone would see it that way. +floof

We are calm. We want to cooperate. Please stop assuming we are screaming at y’all.

I don't think you are "screaming" Cilantro. We just have differing opinions perhaps?

Don’t turn this on me because you are frustrated Dylan. I can tell what you are trying to do :)

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Re: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2020, 04:02:02 am »
I'm 50/50 on this. I think there is still hope. There are many people who are very committed to this game. I think it feels dead because the people that used to play aren't really here anymore, and it's hard to bring back the same nostalgia and memories we used to have. So I understand, yes, but I don't really think the game has died....

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Offline G4RG0YLE

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Re: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2020, 04:08:24 am »
How do I like a post?

In all seriousness I agree. If anything the upgrade and fh are doomed and are in their final moments. I’m sorry to the devs of the upgrade game, but how will you get players to come back to a game that people negatively associate with?

Another thing is the fact there aren’t many rp kids anymore. Kids on playgrounds don’t make believe things much, and instead Play on their phones. The game is 10 years Old at this point. We need to let it go

I have to disagree again tbh. You all need to give the staff a chance to fix what is broken and only time will tell what is in store in the next update. I highly doubt that the staff plan on repeating past mistakes.

The community has given plenty of chances and patience. Every time they've given FH another chance, and another, and another, and another, they've been left hurt, confused or disappointed. The community have spoken plenty of what they want and there has been little to no effort put in to actually achieve what everyone wants. Not without steering away from that path to do things the staff way, which is a factor as to why the game is near enough dead already. People are tired of being left disappointed all the time, let alone have been stripped with boredom and lack of motivation towards a game that provides nothing but the same roleplay, an awful lot of lag, disconnecting, some sort of Tinder that no one wants. You get the idea.

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Offline LordSuragaha

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Re: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2020, 04:29:44 am »
They assume we are "attacking" them. Or as Sura stated: "giving constant misinformation, doubt, ridicule, trolling, death threats and so forth."

You are assuming that.

No where in that statement did I suggest that those were attacks. What I did was give a list of examples of the varying degrees of reception we receive and deal with and how we don’t just give up simply because it’s not always positive.

The ridicule is actually critique.

Then forgive me for saying, but it’s lousy critique. Ridicule in itself does nothing but prove dissatisfaction in something but it doesn’t provide any real useful feedback or analysis. Ok so now we know you don’t like something, now what? What actual critique & feedback do you have to supplement your ridicule? Ridicules sole purpose is to simply put something down without offering a solution. Ridicule for the sake of ridicule is pointless if you actual care to see something improve and want to be an acting force towards that. If one is just here to ridicule then your time is obviously better spent else where and it just comes across as you don’t like something and don’t care to provide actual feedback. Feedback consists of listing problems & providing potential solutions. Ridicule is not the correct approach if you care about something but are displeased with it, because ridicule in itself does not come from a place of well meaning. Ridicule simply breeds an environment for more hostility which shouldn’t be coming from any side, staff or community at this point. If anyone here really cares about moving forward positively it takes two to tango. If the community wouldn’t accept ridicule towards them then neither should the staff towards us or the game. Critique however, now that’s another thing.

The definition of critique:

“a detailed analysis and assessment of something, especially a literary, philosophical, or political theory.”

“evaluate (a theory or practice) in a detailed and analytical way.”

It’s time we move away from ridicule to better means of communication and critique. Many state that communication is an issue after all.

With that being said:

The thing is, staff are already so defensive about communication.

No we are not. We constantly seek new means of communication to the community.

Example the podcast we held earlier this year where we asked you all to submit any questions you had about anything or your feedback:

https://feral-heart.com/smf/index.php?topic=67687.0

Yes we asked that you remain respectful but we never said you couldn’t say whatever you truly wanted to say. We can all communicate honestly while remaining civil and respectful.

Other mediums of communication we actively use are our social media platforms like the FH Instagram, DeviantArt, Tumblr, etc.

Don’t forget the polls where we ask for your feedback:

https://feral-heart.com/smf/index.php?board=33.0

There’s also this very forum where I am communicating to you right now.

I think the “issue” with communication is that some folks are assuming things about the staff or how they might respond rather than just communicating. Hey if you’re assuming things and that’s what’s keeping you from communicating than communicate those things! We can only communicate effectively if we help each other out. How can people communicate that they want to communicate if they don’t communicate? lol I know it sounds silly because it is. It’s really quite that simple. As long as we’re all respectful and act like civil humans there shouldn’t be an issue communicating on either side.

The more I look at it with all these different threads and responses from staff and community alike I don’t think the issue is really communication. There’s communication going on but what’s happening is people aren’t getting the exact answers they want to hear or expect to hear.

A big issue with both the staff and the community is the expectations. There’s too many expectations being equally burdened on to either sides shoulders. Example: Staff wanting users to keep being patient even as years seemingly go by with few updates/changes etc. Why? Because we’re all just trying to find some sort of compromise and solution to things that truth is none of us have complete control over.

Staff can’t give you all the answers you want to hear because we don’t know them for sure ourselves sometimes.

Why is that?

It could be for simple reasons as a decision hasn’t been finalized yet, something is still a WIP, etc and we don’t want to say something we can’t fulfill. There’s also the fact that us staff don’t make all the decisions or come up with all the answers. Staff have to take into consideration not just what the community is saying and wants but also what our server master is saying and wants. Sometimes we don’t always even get a clear answer if any answer from him when we reach out. Staff work a careful balancing act between two worlds that sometimes do not see eye to eye on matters (Raz & Community). So how do we work in a way that can give the community exactly what they want but also our server master? You can’t. But we are trying. We’ve been trying for years and still are and it’s not always an easy affair.

Just because we can’t always give you the answers & things you want, when you want, doesn’t mean it’s because we didn’t listen. It’s because we have to make compromises sometimes.

I can say here right now just some of the things we’ve constantly listened to:

- general chat (why did it get removed, people want it back or replacements)
- Staff in game activity
- Staff consistency in bans and discipline
- No more surprise patches
- Transparent development work & logs roadmaps
- Improvements & overhauls to current maps/ return of old maps etc
- Etc

Some of these things are in progress of being improved upon constantly like staff activity, staff consistency in bans and discipline etc. These things we can handle ourselves without the need for Raz intervention. This was why rules were rewritten to be more clear, staff evaluation surveys went up as well as MIT suggestion surveys etc. Part of the community suggestions were these additions and revisions.

Others of these are more difficult to give an exact transparent answer on because they’re not decisions solely up to us or our abilities. We get the feedback from you all and we communicate that to our server master but it’s still up to him what of that gets actually implemented to the server and how. A perfect example of this is everyone who asks for general chat back. Staff want it back too. We’ve made Raz aware to that, but Raz has his own valid opinions on matters as well as ideas. When it comes to this example his idea would require his own time to put in a system he sees fit. This goes with any other big changes that only Raz could implement due to it being through coding or uploading to the server. Only he can do these things so only he has answers of when, if, and how these things will be done.

A lot of things the community wants or the staff wants to do comes down to Raz, he’s the server master after all. He’s dealing with the expectations of not just the community but the staff as well. We already put a lot of pressure on him and truth is while it’s him owning and paying for the server it’s really down to him the pace and direction at which he takes things. As frustrating as that might be for some it’s just a matter of acceptance too. It’s very possible that all this pressure from staff and community alike can just push him away. We’ve seen that happen before. The guy already works so much. Mount that on to staff getting frustrated because staff want things because community is frustrated because community wants things.

It becomes a vicious cycle. This is why I mentioned expectations. It comes to a point where we all just need to measure out our expectations with the reality of the situation that’s been at place for years. I’m not trying to give excuses, disappoint anyone, or even blame Raz, but you want an honest answer and that’s just how it is. At least this is how I see it. There comes a point where we need to just accept that it might just be the way it is sometimes? If the expectations are never met, then maybe for some staff & community alike it is better they just leave.

Sometimes you can’t get the change you want. Some things just don’t change and some things just change too much. But the better thing to do is just take a break, give things some time off, maybe come back later and see if how it feels again. If you’re still not happy with it then maybe it’s better to move on to places where you feel happier.

I’m sorry a lot to read but it may as well be said.

There is some stuff in the plans and in the works that even I’m not entirely aware to. But in the upcoming months we’ll all hopefully be able to explain and understand more.

SpicyDirt

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Re: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2020, 04:36:34 am »
I’m sorry a lot to read but it may as well be said.

A lot to read but very appreciated. Thank you for clearing things up Sura <3

Calvary

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Re: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2020, 04:54:22 am »
@Sura.

All I'm going to say in response to this, because I do respect what you are trying to do, and I am not going to reply to this entire thing mainly because I think I, and many others have addressed what has already needed to be said.

The last time someone critiqued the staff while they were on MOTS, if I recall correctly, some of you called that person 'disgusting'. And yes, it was an actual critique. So take that as you may.

You are right however, there are a lot of things that need to go through Raz for approval, or for anything really. It becomes a cycle and a huge mess, but at some point, somewhere down the line, you have to begin acknowledging that it is a communication issue, and always has been.

It goes from Members > MOTS > Staff > Raz.

You guys should be allowed the duality of making some decisions for yourself, which I know you all tried in the past while Raz was MIA. Unfortunately not everything turned out properly in that aspect. But these things get misconstrued. I will say, however, that these answers seem to be bouncing back and forth. One person says there's a surprise waiting to happen because you want to keep it a surprise, and then the next party says "the reason we can't share is because of x and x" and nothing really regarding a personal decision. It's a bit conflicting, don't you agree?

My most honest and genuine suggestion for you all. For every single one of you.

Community: Be modest and kind, civil in your approaches. Seek patience and confidence in what you want and be straightforward. If something comes out that you do not like, please voice it in a kind and civil manner. There are people out here doing that work for free, so please respect that. Always respect that. Even if you may not always agree with the decisions made.

Staff: I hope you hear me when I say this. You have not taken well to positive discussions before, nor have you taken well to critiques. This I can prove.

Quote
I think the “issue” with communication is that some folks are assuming things about the staff or how they might respond rather than just communicating.

I'm quoting this because this is important. People might be scared of you, and for good reason. I myself, was even scared of you lot while I was on the staff team. I'm going to be open and honest, but when the admins told the staff team we could approach them with any problem they had, I did not expect the kind of negative responses I got from you all at the time when I actually took your word for it. I still hold this fear to this day, despite the apologies given. People may feel the same way about approaching you. Please take this into account. Some of these may not be assumptions, but genuine fears based on previous experiences.

Please figure out a way to properly structure the team without the need for waiting on a single voice. Perhaps a majority vote would do well in cases when the head honcho isn't present or can't be present. Come up with some sort of collaborative decision that allows you to get things done without having to escalate every project upwards.

And from then on, if you find that solution. Have community votes, have them pick what they want to see, what projects they want to have. Do not pick yourself, but instead, give the community a variety of projects at their disposal and vote them into existence if possible. This is the best route for community interaction and feedback.

I do wish you all the best. I hope this game runs far past this rut.

Offline leda

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Re: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2020, 05:27:44 am »
find me in game as user leda, or see my feral heart dA, rookfox.deviantart.com !

Aureilius

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Re: This game isn't dying, it's already dead: a proposal
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2020, 05:34:41 am »
zombie furry rp when