General Chat Attacks

[razmirz]

[Ritza]

First Point.
Mkay, first off, you act Nonprofiter like this is a one time thing. Like your friends got kicked for no reason, not true. I was there, as well as other people when that happened. Second. It would be a completely different story if it wasn't the same people doing the same thing every single night. Oh yes, it's the same thing, same people during Zero Period (time when there are no staff on in game at all, and all heck usually breaks lose.) We all know who they are, the trolls and queen trolls who troll every single night. It just so happens that sometimes during Zero Period there actually happens to be staff on, and they actually happen to see you, and they actually happen to ban you. This is tough luck...? No. You shouldn't of been trolling, spamming, and swearing all over general in the first place and you wouldn't have to get banned in the first place.

Second Point.
What about these people...

MOD# You guys are spamming general, please stop or I'm going to have to ban you.
OMGz we were just talkings!
OMGz your so stupid.
OMGZ you can't tell me what to do.
MOD# Enough.
OMGZ who the f*** do you thinkz you are trying to tell me what to do.
OMGZ I hate you!
OMGZ I think you *swear words* and I think your mommy is *swear words* and your whole life is a *swear words*
MOD# *kicks/bans*
OMGZ your a meanie!
OMGZ etc
MOD# You have all been told to cease all action and you continue. *kicks/bans someone else*

Makes sense to me. The moderator has completely lost control, best way to get it back is by removing the defected people that are in general. Simply kick them until their right mind comes back. Simply said, I think this should have been done long ago. Most def when a few certain troll queens started to pop up. But we forgot to mention these people right?


Point Three.

There currently is a guideline that all staff follow, it's called the rules, and just like the Supreme Court, Raz & Kov leaves it up to interpretation. If a giant Country has nine people who decide how the law goes, I'm sure that the slew of in game moderators can make up for this as well. Now I did say there was a slew, I didn't say there was a legion of them running around, so they simply don't have the manpower to sit there and give every troll Miranda Rights. Plus they already tell you in game when your about to be kicked.

MOD# "Hey if I see you swear again I'm banning you."  
OMGZ *swear swear swear*
MOD# *kicks & bans*

You were warned already. Stop pushing the limit.

Point Four.

I don't know how you can be considerate of the situation. I have seen how some of these people speak to some of the moderators, respect flows both ways, and usually the moderators don't sit there and chew out people on general. Actually I've never seen it, i've just seen them kick and ban people. They don't take the time to argue, which is the way to do it. Game rules are right there, read them or be kicked/banned, and then don't come onto the forum to complain when you do.

Meh. But that's my take on it.

[Babe]

Not really. I see threaten as a harsh word, used when someone is being told off / yelled at in 'threatening' way. Calmly addressing the issue isn't really the same, as far as I'm concerned. ^^

Yes, you did say that, but you weren't that.. specific.

As I stated they are warned before they are banned. What affect does repetitively telling a troll to stop have? 0

^ For a majority, sure, but you can not cluster people and assume everyone is a troll. You need to take the time, have the patience, to look into things and do what is right even if it takes up a bit of time. If you or other staff are unwilling to do this.. :/ ?

i I personally don't see a troll as a loss.

Perhaps they are not, but regardless they are a human, a member, and deserve to have the same level of treatment and respect as any other member, even when a moderators patience wears thin they should be acting professionally.

I also mentioned more than JUST how many times I would warn them. =] I mentioned other things that are an important asset to being on successful and role model type of staff team.

@ Ritza:

"MOD# You guys are spamming general, please stop or I'm going to have to ban you.
OMGz we were just talkings!
OMGz your so stupid.
OMGZ you can't tell me what to do.
MOD# Enough.
OMGZ who the f*** do you thinkz you are trying to tell me what to do.
OMGZ I hate you!
OMGZ I think you *swear words* and I think your mommy is *swear words* and your whole life is a *swear words*
MOD# *kicks/bans*
OMGZ your a meanie!
OMGZ etc
MOD# You have all been told to cease all action and you continue. *kicks/bans someone else*

Makes sense to me. The moderator has completely lost control, best way to get it back is by removing the defected people that are in general. Simply kick them until their right mind comes back. Simply said, I think this should have been done long ago. Most def when a few certain troll queens started to pop up. But we forgot to mention these people right?"

Yes, but there does not appear to be much organization among HOW they go about it. Which appears to be the problem here, hehe.

"There currently is a guideline that all staff follow, it's called the rules, and just like the Supreme Court, Raz & Kov leaves it up to interpretation. If a giant Country has nine people who decide how the law goes, I'm sure that the slew of in game moderators can make up for this as well. Now I did say there was a slew, I didn't say there was a legion of them running around, so they simply don't have the manpower to sit there and give every troll Miranda Rights. Plus they already tell you in game when your about to be kicked.

MOD# "Hey if I see you swear again I'm banning you."  
OMGZ *swear swear swear*
MOD# *kicks & bans*

You were warned already. Stop pushing the limit."

Well this is NOT the supreme court and should not be treated as such. They need guidelines, proper guidelines so that staff don't cross paths or don't get confused. It would be helpful to not only the staff, but to members. Rules are nice and sure, they help, but staff should have and deserve some sort of specific list of things that they do. Such as;

1. If a member spams the chat they get etc amount of time kicked.
2. If a member curses etc.

That way, it ISN'T left up to interruption because mistakes/confusion/accidents happen that way. Staff should all be on the same level of knowledge when it comes to these sensitive subjects -- why aren't they? =|

"I don't know how you can be considerate of the situation. I have seen how some of these people speak to some of the moderators, respect flows both ways, and usually the moderators don't sit there and chew out people on general. Actually I've never seen it, i've just seen them kick and ban people. They don't take the time to argue, which is the way to do it. Game rules are right there, read them or be kicked/banned, and then don't come onto the forum to complain when you do."

That's why being staff is important and a serious role. They should keep their cool in situations, be as considerate as possible.
And arguing? Hardly! I don't understand how one can think so one-lined like that.

People, we must give all members their rightful chances, even when you feel they don't deserve it. Follow strict guidelines made for staff. Otherwise, there is no order, confusion will ensue. ^^

[razmirz]

[Kyugima]

@Owlfeesh (because quoting your posts would fill up my typing space XD)

At first I was sort of agreeing with you, but after a while of reading I'm not so sure. Your comments make sense in same places, but in others seem ridiculous.

Your plan for dealing with these people at first glance seems okay, but if you think about it, wouldn't work. There are way too many people out there that refuse to obey the rules, and you expect the mods to keep up with what every single one of them has done, how long there next ban is supposed to be? You almost seem like you expect the mod to follow these people around on a daily basis to keep an eye on them. Best to deal with it on the spot than draw things out longer than need be. Yes, give a warning before you resort to banning, but your plan seems to go out of it's way to make it easy for people to get around, and avoid being banned when they have reason to be banned.

And your last post has so many things I wish to say about it, but i will keep it simple. And it may jumpe around a bit, I'm tired XD

How do you know how long EACH AND EVERY MODERATOR takes to figure out what's going on? Don't jump to conclusions from a couple of statement or a couple of incidents you have seen. People aren't going to put up the time they took to come to a conclusion on whether someone deserved a ban or not.

You seem to be getting things from peoples posts that were never there to begin with. At what point did Raz say that trolls or whatever are treated with less respect than the rest of the FH community?

Next point you said in post: As said above, your idea is also full of holes that would make it way to easy for rule breakers to get through.

Organisation in how they go about it? I think in that example they seem to be doing fine, they simply can not get the OMGZ people to listen. No amount of organisation is going to stop that.

These people often ARE given chances, more chances than they probably should, but in no way will they listen. Simple fact. No amount of throwing cotton at a brick wall is going to make it fall. You can try and try, but eventually you have to resort to something stronger. Same goes for ignorant trolls and fools who think they are above the rules. No amount of polite considerate warnings are going to get through to them. How many security officers or police do you see giving polite considerate warnings? This isn't the help desk of a supermarket.

[Ritza]

Thank you Raz & Kyugima.

They simply do not have the man power, and no one said anything about first glancing anyone. I'm talking about the known trolls that walk around at night. I'm pretty sure that we can make a list of ten users just between the people in this thread. That's who I'm talking about. Never once did I say "Kick all random people."
 

[Babe]

Again, it is how I view it. If you are bent on me using threaten, I will use it. ^^

And no, no other member would be banned. That is absolutely not what I am saying, so please do not twist my words, kind sir. :3 I'm saying that as a human, they should be treated with respect, given rights to an extent. After all, they have feelings, and with a bit of patience anything can be done. Even if that anything ends up being banned. *shurgs*

And I was using that as an example, kindly do not take examples so seriously. If we are to get into a serious conversation regarding a guideline list, I'd gladly do so with you!

And once more, no. The administrators (or more active / high in rank) could decide among themselves what is a proper sort of list that could be used for banning guidelines, then the staff below them go off of that, so there is no confusion.


Now I'll be honest here, I think we're all on the same page just about, with some different ideas about how going about things should be done. In the end, it is up to Kov mainly, with Razmirz and Raksha at his sides to debate and discuss. I just hope what we say is not brushed aside. ~

Please, take no offense to what I say everyone! I'm just out to help and bring ideas forward. ^^
And what if you have a problem with the general moderation / administration and what has been done? I suppose then there is no real answer. :/ Which, you probably have got me there as to what I can reply with.

If I may inquire, however, why do you and others of the staff seem so un-eager to make simple changes for the better for the community?

@ Kyu: Hai! That's okay XD

I'm glad to hear you've agreed, at least to a point. Here is my reply.

"I personally don't see a troll as a loss." - As quoted from Raz. One can imply that people will think less of trolls and therefor, with common sense, one may infer that they will be treated differently. ~

If there are too many people, then they need more in game and forum staff members. I find the solution right before our very noses yet we refuse to look at it, or turn our heads the other way without a second thought! Now, I'm not saying staff need to completely devote their lives to everything in here, but if they are staff, they should be doing the best that they can. Being in game, taking screenshot proof, taking the small amount of time to search members and get an email, along with (if for some reason they are not banned from the forum) replying to any threads they may make. We need to make ALL members feel comfortable, and give them the knowledge they deserve, even when banned.

And I do not know how much time a moderator takes, although I hope they take a considerable amount of time to deal with things. Otherwise, what is the point and why are they staff in the first place?

And I'm sorry but I've seen a lack of organization. I've been talked to by other staff members and seen it with my own eyes. There are staff members that go behind each others back, staff members that wish they could quit or fire someone else. This is no way to act when on a staff team, it's absolutely ridiculous!

And I beg to differ, good ma'am. Politeness and acting calmly, along with patience can go a long way, trust me. (: When worse comes to worse, you know you tried your best but did what you had to. And if challeneged, you have the evidence to say "Well, I tried warning you!"

@Ritza: As I said above, more staff then. Simple solution!

[slycan]

okay okay - but can someone please explain this part to me seriously... you guys seem to be stuck one one single detail of this thread which would be if  Mods should ban Trolls. No DUH they should why are we even debating that x.x!


what what's this thing about them saying Mods don't ban spammers / mate beggers /Advertising in general chat, but "Speaking across the map to friends not near you = spam" and etc..( which kinda started it all it seems...) ? Are there certain mods that wouldn't do one thing that the other does??

That's may be whats causing so much confusion?

[Babe]

Oh right again, Slycan. My bad! ^^; Raz and all, feel free to shoot me a PM to continue that. =)

Well Slycan, I'm not sure. o: I think they are saying how one is spam, one isn't. I'm.. slightly confused about that. But I'm sure the moderators do what they can about that, without guidelines of course..

This whole thread feels slightly off track. ^^;

[Ritza]

I think that is the problem so far with your argument Owlfeesh. You're shoving words where they don't belong, pardon my "harsh" tone. If you wish to call it that. But the safest thing to do is to read words for what they are. Raz never once said that trolls are less than regular members, nor did anyone say anything about treating them different. What we are saying is "If regular members have/and obviously do (since they aren't kicked/banned) follow the rules, then trolls do as well. Or be removed." That is what is being said.

And the people who were banned yesterday? Meh. If you see a moderator telling you to cease and action, and you really don't want to, at least go to a different map out of the moderators sight if you really don't want to be banned. Sitting there and arguing is begging to be banned. <--- key point.

The thing is, general is used for advertising rps, getting together for rp reasons yes. Not for your social life needs, most def when your all sitting right next to each other and probably could use local in the first place.