Author Topic: Can We Remove Romance/Strength/Leadership from The Equation?  (Read 4157 times)

Offline Silhouette

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Can We Remove Romance/Strength/Leadership from The Equation?
« on: September 17, 2013, 12:17:33 pm »
I really have to wonder... why is it so many roleplay plots, either as a group or individually focus on finding a partner/mate/lovelife as if its the ONLY thing that matters? Okay, okay, I get it, we have a lot of young teenagers in this community, got that. Yet this is something almost everyone seems to be doing regardless of age. The kids do it. The teenage players do it. Even some of the adults do it.

I understand that with realistic animals that getting a mate, mating, having cubs, rinse, wash, repeat is "what makes the world go round" but when you venture into semi-realism or unrealism... why does this "ideal" STILL stick SO much?

Additionally, why is physical strength and leadership so overdone? (Note: I am talking about a character being described in this manner, not necessarily a "person trying to lead a pack/RP" although that can qualify too) I think half the people who write in their bios "He or she is a good/strong leader" probably don't have a grasp as to what either word really means, let alone are not clear about what they're saying. Why not play a /weak/ character for a change? Play a timid character for once. (without overdoing it to the point you annoy your fellow players with your character's skittishness)

Has it ever occurred to anyone that being a leader may not exactly be everyone's forte? In most respects it involves juggling multiple tasks at once that your character's fellow "ordinary members" just have to do one or two of, dealing with the fact realistically people [and animals] don't "follower orders" like blind sheep and instead dont do what theyve been told or shown, having to supervise what their fellow members do rather than just doing it themselves (but still being ABLE to do it themselves).

 Its stressful, its confusing, and its hard. Even most overly dominant pet dogs usually stop acting "high and mighty" once they realize their owner is in control. They don't need to stress being aggressive, they know its not "worth fighting to be top dog anymore" But why do animals fuss about position in the hierarchy? Ohwait, lets go back to the first of the three topics because usually its because of, you guessed it, mating rights. Notice how a lot of animals tend to tone down that kind of behavior when they get spayed/neutered? Hm... Wonder why. *Sarcasm* Even so, it does not make gaining or maintaining such a position easy, mating rights just make it "worthwhile" for an animal I suppose.

Now all of that said, I kinda wish that the semi-realistic and unrealistic RPs (for what few still exist out there) could steer away from these elements a little because if you're already adding a human sort of personification to the mix then why can't you add some OTHER aspirations and ambitions to the mix OTHER than getting a partner, or becoming a leader? For most people the former happens by itself and the latter is not everyone's forte because they lack the discipline. As for being the strongest... look at your average "pack" or "clan" or "pride" A good chunk of its members will claim to be "Strong" or "athletic" somehow. Now look at your average human population. Pluck thirty random people off the street without discretion and you would probably be hard pressed to find even half, let alone a quarter of them being athletic.

The reason I bring this up at all is because I feel like the less-than-realistic RPs have a LOT of potential material that they don't use. Quit with the "forbidden" overdone love-life seeking. Quit with the "Im gonna be the strongest warrior/wolf/lion/hyena ever!!!" Or if you DO do that....make it /fail/ for once. Make a break up. Make that "strongest wanna-be hero" end up dying, or live but be clutzy and constantly fall on his face, or never get to be what wants to and end up instead finding his forte is doing something else, even if its something he hates [like being a healer/medic] Sometimes what you would LIKE to be and what you're CAPABLE of is two entirely different things. BE DIFFERENT.

I'll give you an example. I've got a character named Cosette and shes an imaginary species of canine I made up. Through a thought-out series of events, she and many others of her kinds were thrown from wormholes into Feral Heart, and the wormhole sealed up. She has NO idea where anyone else she knows is. Not a clue. Is she hunting around for a mate and moaning about how she doesnt have one? No! She's got more important things to do, like trying to find others of her own kind (and theres a few played by other players) trying to figure out where they are so she can find a means of opening those wormholes back up and go home. Mate-seeking (I think) should not be the sole reason someone makes a character, and if anything should be at the bottom of a character's "to-do list" (or not be there at all, and just let it happen on its own)

Does this character recipie sound familiar?
Cub: Annoying, misbehaved, troublesome child
Teenager: Rebellious, mate-hunter, unhappy about being "lonely"
Adult: Either severely unhappy or "lonely" that he/she lacks a mate, desiring cubs 24/7, wanting to be the leader or IS the leader, or loving all over their "mate" to the point they shut out half or all of what anyone else says.

If it sounds familiar, its probably because its /too/ familiar. People don't usually get up in the morning and go "Gee, am I going to get a boyfriend/girlfriend today?" and then bawl their eyes out at the end of the day when they dont. They just don't. They want to go to soccer practice, take the neices/nephews to daycare, get homework done, or otherwise do more important things and we all know this. They've got more to do. Consequently, most people don't want to put being a leader on TOP of all this because they ALREADY have a lot of things to do, and of course after a long hard day don't want to work out because they're tired and *gasp* sometimes are lazy. (and thats understandable). So if all your character does is mate-seek, never does anything else, has no aspirations past that or "being a leader" but expects it to be handed to them on a silver platter....does any of that make sense? Not really.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is, why do people cling to these "ideals" in semi-realistic or unrealistic RP at all? People keep complaining they get bored when their character's "mate" goes offline because they don't seem to know how to RP their character without them. Or if they're not barking orders at members who follow like obedient sheep, they're bored. Or if their character can't be the strongest, they dont like it and treat being "slight below the bar" as if it makes them helpless.

Long story short: Learn how to give your characters their own ambitions/aspirations (OTHER than being a leader, being the most powerful, or finding a mate!), stop complaining, think outside the box, interact with others from OUTSIDE of your group if you can, learn the nature of other people's characters so you can make a plot that fits and is worth following. What does this translate to? Have some INDIVIDUAL character development!

Maybe I'm going in circles now but perhaps that because the whole thing is kind of like a cycle, a very nonsensical cycle. Anyone else notice any of these things? If this just sounds like a confusing garble, I'm too tired to go back over it right now but if anyone's confused, I might be able to answer questions later. So....anyone notice these trends?


Offline Vacio

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Re: Can We Remove Romance/Strength/Leadership from The Equation?
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2013, 12:38:05 pm »
Basically why I don't roleplay anymore. =_=

I really hate it when people do the mate thing. because every character HAS to have one, and after that, the character doesn't matter, Usually the players of the couple play the children, too and then they stop playing the parents, Also it seems like nowadays it's just one litter, because the original mates just make a few cubs/pups, the players of the parents play those and well. it starts up again. and there really isn't a point to the roleplay, Character progression is... Born->ages->Becomes young adult->has mate and cubs/pups->...forgotten.

Oh, and people seem to lack playing Antagonist characters that arn't just like "Kill. You're weak so you should die? that's my reason. yep." So basically they just -are- a bad guy and there is no reason, and they lack mystery, bad guys without even a hint of mystery tend to be pretty dull.

Offline Silhouette

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Re: Can We Remove Romance/Strength/Leadership from The Equation?
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2013, 12:52:32 pm »
Basically why I don't roleplay anymore. =_=

I really hate it when people do the mate thing. because every character HAS to have one, and after that, the character doesn't matter, Usually the players of the couple play the children, too and then they stop playing the parents, Also it seems like nowadays it's just one litter, because the original mates just make a few cubs/pups, the players of the parents play those and well. it starts up again. and there really isn't a point to the roleplay, Character progression is... Born->ages->Becomes young adult->has mate and cubs/pups->...forgotten.

Oh, and people seem to lack playing Antagonist characters that arn't just like "Kill. You're weak so you should die? that's my reason. yep." So basically they just -are- a bad guy and there is no reason, and they lack mystery, bad guys without even a hint of mystery tend to be pretty dull.

Yeah. I tend to play the offspring of my own characters but usually its because there is a shortage of people who I am willing to let play them or its for plot purposes. (I am picky.) With some characters, however, I prefer not to play the offspring if I can find enough people. On the same note, I never create characters specifically JUST to seek out mates so often times, if my characters find mates its by sheer circumstance/luck/being in the right place at the right time. (Just like a real person, go figure.)

And I agree. No one's evil characters have a motive anymore. I can name only about 7 or so people I know who out of all the people I RP with or have RP'd with that have evil characters with an actual goal or motive, and quite frankly, I think that makes them scarier. I know some people who have characters who will actually AVOID killing some other chars in their moments of weakness simply out of sadism and the fact it would'nt be as "entertaining" if they did'nt get to fight/kill them at full strength. I don't have many evil characters but the few that I do all have a motive/goal/reason for what they're doing rather blaming it on "OH IM INSANE, I KILL U". People forget that the antagonist is just a protagonist with the opposite (and often twisted viewpoint that can't be sympathized with). Then again, I suppose for this we could direct ourselves to Lady Alazrain's thread about "Why does it Always have to be kill?


Offline darkknight

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Re: Can We Remove Romance/Strength/Leadership from The Equation?
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2013, 02:14:26 pm »
I think it's ironic that in a community full of very creative people, they'd stick to the usual routine of what is stated. Or simply have the overused personalities or aspirations we have seen more than a dozen times. To me, it doesn't make sense, why center you character solely on romance, strength, or leadership? There is so much more you can do with any character, the possibilities are endless. You can be searching for a purpose of your existence, taking a journey to the sea simply because you've never seen big water before, befriend a stranger and venture into the wild together to find diamonds, discover a do-do in a cave, anything!

It's alright to have whether you want to find love for your character, talk about their strength, or be a coming-of-age leader, but these are more of the tenth or ninth aspects that play in an adventure or whatever you are doing. Don't let it be the first because it doesn't lead to anything more unless you have a solid goal already in place. If not, you're just going eventually bore yourself.
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Offline Satsuki

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Re: Can We Remove Romance/Strength/Leadership from The Equation?
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2013, 03:27:51 pm »
Why can't we just have one positive none complaint thread for once...? Last recent topics I have reading is nothing but complaining about this and that, however I agree with you... It really does ticks me off when I see people do or make a whole role play and the first person shouts they want to be the leader's mate without role playing it or even get to know each other first. I actually leave the group when that happen. Because I know that the group is going to fall apart in a day or so.

Or I am probably the envious type... Or whatever but it just really makes me mad when do that kind of thing... Do not get me wrong though, that's because the leader finds a mate in a couple of days before you or anyone else does. Do not mean for you or anyone else to get all negative thinking that they only care for their mate. You are just probably role playing with the wrong crowd, as for me I do not role play as much anymore... Because it is the same old same old.


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Offline Silhouette

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Re: Can We Remove Romance/Strength/Leadership from The Equation?
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2013, 03:50:20 pm »
Why can't we just have one positive none complaint thread for once...? Last recent topics I have reading is nothing but complaining about this and that, however I agree with you... It really does ticks me off when I see people do or make a whole role play and the first person shouts they want to be the leader's mate without role playing it or even get to know each other first. I actually leave the group when that happen. Because I know that the group is going to fall apart in a day or so.

Or I am probably the envious type... Or whatever but it just really makes me mad when do that kind of thing... Do not get me wrong though, that's because the leader finds a mate in a couple of days before you or anyone else does. Do not mean for you or anyone else to get all negative thinking that they only care for their mate. You are just probably role playing with the wrong crowd, as for me I do not role play as much anymore... Because it is the same old same old.

If you want a postive thread, go make one or just don't read the "negative ones." Sorry if you don't like the way that sounds but I don't sugar-coat.

I personally don't take nearly as much away from "How many guys like this 8D or I love this 8D" threads than I do threads that, while they may be littered with complaints, make people think, allows them to vent frustration, and suggest means of either fixing the issue or finding ways around it. They call it "constructive" criticism for a reason.

Understand I am not speaking solely from my own experiences, so please don't tell me "I am probably roleplaying with the wrong crowd" either. These are trends that are /across the board/ with every age group and "type" or "crowd" as you put it. The people I try to RP with on a regular basis thankfully DON'T do these things. Its when my friends become busy and I have ventured out to RP with complete strangers or asked people about what they think about other player's characters that I have gathered these observations so I know that I am not the only one who has thought about this and seen these things.

I do agree that groups that allow auto-mating/automatic pairing up tend to break up a lot faster than those that don't. As for thinking they only care for their mate....um, quite frankly? I don't care what anyone else cares about in that respect. I don't see the relationship as real. Its a fake relationship shared by two fake characters. What I care about is being completely blown off/ignored because someone gets too excited about their character's mate to the point they ignore everyone else around them. Because if they run off and do that, who are you RPing with anymore? Nobody. They just completely cut you out. Sounds like a pretty good "reason to be negative" to me.

What I had meant was that (and this goes many many character regardless of leadership, ranking, or even being in a group) I've seen too many times where I will be RPing with someone and they completely blow off/don't answer my character and run over to their mate and pretend like my character does not exist anymore and completely exclude me from the RP. I specifically recall one person who was in the exact same RP as I was suddenly went "Sorry I got to go, so and so is on" and the same person was in the same RP we were. I had to explain to this person twice that all of our characters were all in the same RP before she/he calmed down and bothered to start acknowledging the rest of us again. Then again, I think part of the problem with that particular instance was that she probably did'nt know the difference between IC and OOC very well and I do wonder very much if she thought the person was her "boyfriend" because the behavior did not appear to be mutual.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 03:54:24 pm by Silhouette »


Offline Lady_Alizarin

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Re: Can We Remove Romance/Strength/Leadership from The Equation?
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2013, 04:53:23 pm »
Very good topic here, Silhouete. Here's my thoughts on it....

I don't know why some people think it's so important for their character to be the "strongest" or the "bravest" one of all. It seems so Mary Sue/Gary Stue to me, especially when they describe their characters to be strong and fearless with no flaws whatsoever. I see it all the time in many different roleplays, wether it's in lion prides, wolf packs, or warrior cat clans. I often times see it in Warrior clans. Too often do I see a "big powerful" tom cat with a name that sounds threatening, like "Snakevenom" or "Skullsmasher" or "Deathsentence".
Some don't have the farfetched names, but alot of times I would encounter a Warrior that would have a bio where it would say Strenght: 98% | Speed: 99% | Fighting skills:100% | Agility: 97% | Intelligence: 90%. That's no joke, I actually saw a bio like that once. They claim to be the most perfect warrior and skilled fighter. It really makes the character real dull and Mary Sueish... no real depth, uniquness, or individuality. No one in the world is perfect, and everyone has flaws, fears, and weaknesses! Often times it's the children who play this game that have characters like this. Most kids would think that stronger, smarter, bigger is always the best. "I'm the hero, so I must be the strongest and the bravest, and the best there is! No one can stop me!" Some kids figure that if they have a character who isn't strong, and comes off as weak, they think their character will be pushed around by others, taken as a joke, or not attract the attention of a someone they like (a potential mate). That's just typical child mentality.
Now I have roleplayed with some kids 14 and under and they didn't always play the "big strong" character. There were some that played the timid characters, the goofy clumsy characters, the obidient cub/pup, the philosopher/guide character, the medic characters, the all-bark-and-no-bite characters, or even some nerdy characters. They don't always play the heroic character, but often times the "side-kick" or "supporting" character. They seem to have a good sense of variety.

Many of my characters aren't the strong type, the romantic type that do nothing but seek a mate, or the leaderly type. All my characters have flaws and weaknesses, even if they are the big supernatural characters. Melina for example, she may be a manticore with big claws, teeth, and a venomus scorpion tail.... but that doesn't mean she is an all powerful monster. She doesn't go out to seek a mate, kill everything in sight, or be the strongest monster on Sky's Rim. NO! Her little bio states that she is old and past her prime. She often times states that she's not as young as she used to be when it comes to flying, fighting, and hunting. She's a slow flyer, and is clumsy when she comes in for a landing. Her strength is her wisdom, but she is physically challenged due to old age.
Kojak the bobcat is another example. He's a bobcat with a muscular build and a big round belly. He's somewhat strong, but he has his flaws, fears, and weaknesses too. When I roleplay with my friends in Warrior roleplays and I play as Kojak, he pretty much plays the role of the "supporting character". In other words, he's not the main character that's a leader or the best fighter. He supports the leader and acts as a side-kick, helping the clan, giving them advice about the outside world (their world outside their territory). I really prefer Kojak as being the side-kick character.

When it comes to the whole mate thing, it's not the most important thing in the world of having a mate. None of my characters have mates, and I'm not sad about it either. Some of them had mates in the past, but that kind of stuff didn't happen in roleplay. What I mean is, when I wrote the character bio for them, I put that they had a mate once in the past but somehow they went their seperate ways. There is one character I have that is supposed to be an old widow... and she's going to remain a widow. In her bio, she lost her mate to a pack of wolves. She's sad that he's gone, but she doesn't bring it up or cry about it all the time, or complain about how lonely she feels. Finding a new mate isn't really important to her.




I also don't understand why it is that some people think that playing a "side-kick" role or a "supporting role" is so dull or boring. It may sound dull and boring to them, but it's not. Being the actor, you have to make it interesting. Most of my characters are the side-kick type. They let the leader, or someone else deal with the conflicts while they sit by and watch. I have a shy timid unicorn fox character that does nothing but sit by and help her friends when they need her. She won't fight for them, since she doesn't believe in violence, but she will heal their wounds with her limited magic. Kopper is the same way, except she is just an ordinary fox with no magic.
There is nothing wrong with playing as the "weak/timid character" or the "goofy clown character" or even the "wise retired warrior". There is NO SHAME in playing those roles. Those roles aren't boring at all, if you put some thought into them. I've met many good characters with those kind of personalities, and they were great contributions to the roleplay. Don't always play the Batman, play the Robin every now and then.


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Offline Tearless

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Re: Can We Remove Romance/Strength/Leadership from The Equation?
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2013, 06:44:53 pm »
I have a theory about that... I think a lot of younger players use movies or anime as an example for how to craft their character, which can seem like a perfectly good idea since people obviously like those characters. The only problem is that those media are usually focused on one central character, the protagonist who, especially in anime, does frequently become 'the best [ninja/racecar driver/giant robot pilot/card game player] ever' and find true love because the writers have to do something with the token female character. So of course that should be what your character does too.

The problem, of course, is that you're never the protagonist of a group RP, because no one is, because RP doesn't work like that. If your character is the best hunter in the pack and always catches more prey than anyone, people won't stand around in admiration proclaiming that he/she will go far and become a great leader one day, they'll just get annoyed and think you're a showoff. Similarly, people in real life and group RPs don't get paired off neatly with their true love by the end of a story arc. Some have other goals they put first. Some think romance is dead. Some just aren't interested for any number or reasons. Even for those who are in relationships, none are perfect, even if they're great and both parties love each other. The only way a 'perfect' relationship exists is in the eyes of people who are still in the 'smitten' phase, and it doesn't last forever, but that isn't a bad thing. The problem is that most RP relationships never make it past the puppy love stage and as a result die out as soon as there's a sign of imperfection, causing one or both to go off distraught and bemoaning their shattered heart, and again expecting others to appreciate their protagonist's tragic plight.

Same thing with mischievous/bratty cubs and rebellious/emo/star-crossed teenagers with inner darkness and whatnot. Those, unfortunately, are the examples the media and ESPECIALLY the internet supplies and idealizes. In real life, while I have met some out-of-control children (it is not an endearing trait), I never met anyone during my teenage years who was remotely the edgy, rebellious romantic that most RP teens are. I mean, there was an unfortunate phase Freshman year of high school when I thought I was, but all the black eyeliner and torn camo jeans in the world didn't change the fact that I was short, socially awkward (and not in the cute, 'drops all their books and bumps into future romantic interest while picking them up' sort of way, I really just didn't know how to interact with people and made up for it by sitting off to one side drawing dragons and trying to look like I was failing at being cool on purpose), and had no idea what I was doing. The ones that did sort of know what they were doing weren't trying to be emo, and everyone was as varied in interests and personality as adults, just with more homework, stress, and hormones.

It's kind of too bad that all of those archetypes have been so overdone, since in moderation they can add interest (okay, except for the Perfect Couples, those are just irritating and tend to clog RP plotlines). I know why it's easy and tempting to make that kind of character, but I don't know why people don't try to branch out more after a while. I get bored trying to RP characters like that. One of my favourites to RP is a robot; he has no aspirations of strength or power whatsoever and literally exists to serve others, and doesn't understand love other than on the most basic, more or less platonic level. He's strong and made mostly out of a titanium alloy, yes, but he also has the Three Laws that prevent him from ever using or wanting to use it. Another character grew up in a wild cat refuge and just wants to get back there, thinking his keepers 'lost' him when he was released into the wild. One other actually is a king and has an adoptive cub (but no mate), and he's not really very good at either one. He rules the kingdom because he has to but would rather be doing other things, and he has no idea what to do with an unruly cub and frequently undermines their relationship by mistake.  

It's so much more fun to have various levels of conflict; the third character up there wouldn't work at all if he was a 'good/strong leader,' or wise, or an ideal, loving parent. Plus they actually make it a lot easier to RP with more people, because (though I love running into more complex, less archetypal characters and cling to good RPs when I do find them) both the robot and the human-raised lion make good foils/secondary characters to the more gregarious, ambitious, anime-hero-esque personality types. So I guess there's that.

[Edit: Good gravy this is long, I'm sorry]

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Re: Can We Remove Romance/Strength/Leadership from The Equation?
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2013, 08:12:15 pm »
You have some really good points here Sil. I'm always looking for a decent role play that doesn't involve 'mate-seeking'. Most canine RPs I've been in tend to stick with this topic:

1. One hunt
2. Making friends with your pack mates
3. Getting a mate
4. (Repeat)

When I first started FH, I noticed this all the time. I've quit so many RPs for this reason. Yes, the people were nice and all it's just that nothing ever changes. The 'plot' never changes and never experiences a climax, or even a experience other than the basic situation. It's very, very difficult to find a RP that doesn't follow what I stated above.

Younger players (NOT all) tend to go out and look for partners and if they don't get one with the character they're using? They delete the character, and make a newer, more 'attractive' version of there first one- almost like an upgrade. I just can't stand when people specifically make characters just to find a mate.

Now leadership? This is also a wonderful to discuss... Being an alpha of a group means you reinforce
 the pack's rules and lead the pack, it doesn't mean you can kill them when ever they like.
aren't an alpha, it doesn't mean it's the end of the world. You can still play your part in a pack, you're just not as important. (But that's not a bad thing.) But, all I can say, if you do come face to face with one of these 'wonderful' RP leaders...



I can understand them becoming a bit upset for you running up to a fresh kill and eating it before the alpha, but that doesn't mean they should kill you.


Does this character recipie sound familiar?
Cub: Annoying, misbehaved, troublesome child
Teenager: Rebellious, mate-hunter, unhappy about being "lonely"
Adult: Either severely unhappy or "lonely" that he/she lacks a mate, desiring cubs 24/7, wanting to be the leader or IS the leader, or loving all over their "mate" to the point they shut out half or all of what anyone else says.

Couldn't have put it in a better way.
(Sorry if some sections of my post were a bit off topic.)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 08:14:22 pm by AlphaEclipse »

Offline unnbrellas

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Re: Can We Remove Romance/Strength/Leadership from The Equation?
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2013, 08:48:28 pm »


I had a charater who was a good leader and amazing warrior, but she was also rather cold, anti-social, and harsh. She did have a mate, but she would shun him a good deal of the time. When its even out like that its much better, but when you character is a good leader, the best warrior, and everything of the opposite gender falls in love with you, then you have a problem.

I have a theory about that... I think a lot of younger players use movies or anime as an example for how to craft their character, which can seem like a perfectly good idea since people obviously like those characters. The only problem is that those media are usually focused on one central character, the protagonist who, especially in anime, does frequently become 'the best [ninja/racecar driver/giant robot pilot/card game player] ever' and find true love because the writers have to do something with the token female character. So of course that should be what your character does too...........



I agree with everything there (and whats not there - I cut it off cause it was long)


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