Reverse engineer + Clean room design

[greenart6]

I like this idea. I definitely don't know a lot about this, but seeing as there are a lot of members and staff that DO know how this works and it seems possible---I support.

The only thing I feel is that, as Phloxen mentioned, I feel it would be a bit rude towards Kov or anyone else who helped build the original game. Kov hasn't said a word to the community in years and has essentially left FH in the dust, but he still is... well, definitely alive, and it's possible he could take issue with a project like this. And Scuttle/Twisted brings up a lot of good points in her post as well.

Personally, I'd still love to see this happen. If this project is started, I can guarantee I'd support it, but I do bet there would be a lot of backlash in the community if this were to happen... I mean, just the revamp was extremely controversial, so something bigger like this would probably be even more so.

[Crusoe]

It's definitely 100% doable.

Some projects have even been started (some I've even aided), but all of them have either faded out or been shut down.
The reason being that most don't think they'll be able to top Original/Legit FeralHeart in terms of members/community, so why bother?

Another reason is that it seems kind of like a... rude move to take a bunch of assets that aren't yours to remake something. It basically sounds like a "ha, I did it better" to the original creators.
Copyright or not, most people aren't willing to step on the toes of everyone who created FH like that.

From a consumer's standpoint, it seems totally fine to want something like this. I want it too. Like I've said, I've even attempted a few things with some people here and there.
Here's SkyX implemented into FeralHeart:

But from a creator's standpoint, it just doesn't seem like something you'd want to do without the go-ahead from the people who put the original time and effort into something that's brought us all a lot of fun.

TL;DR:
FeralHeart would be EXTREMELY easy to do anything of this sort with.
The problem is that if this were to be done, would it still even be FeralHeart? How would the original creators feel?
There's been little to no input from them, so until then it's out of everyone's hands, UNLESS there is an overwhelming push to proceed forward without the knowledge/consent of the original creators.

As I mentioned, ask the creators of the assets for permission to use them. Otherwise, make your own. I never stated to 'take/steal' the original work.

I like this idea. I definitely don't know a lot about this, but seeing as there are a lot of members and staff that DO know how this works and it seems possible---I support.

The only thing I feel is that, as Phloxen mentioned, I feel it would be a bit rude towards Kov or anyone else who helped build the original game. Kov hasn't said a word to the community in years and has essentially left FH in the dust, but he still is... well, definitely alive, and it's possible he could take issue with a project like this. And Scuttle/Twisted brings up a lot of good points in her post as well.

Personally, I'd still love to see this happen. If this project is started, I can guarantee I'd support it, but I do bet there would be a lot of backlash in the community if this were to happen... I mean, just the revamp was extremely controversial, so something bigger like this would probably be even more so.

There will always be a portion of the community who will prefer the original FH over a remake or an IT server. Even I personally prefer the older maps (Temple Of Dreams, Ascension Island, Sky's Rim, Flourite Plains, etc).

I don't necessarily see how it's being 'rude' to Kov. In fact, I see it more of a way of honoring him and his original work. Plus, we can always give him credit for his original ideas and work.
If he ever does come back and have an issue, we can simply attempt to straighten things out or stop the project. How would he have a problem with the project itself though?

QUICK EDIT:
Also, you have to realize that there will always be someone who will do something better than the next guy. I don't think saying that 'It would be rude to the original devs' is a good argument.

[Ruby1234]

As I mentioned, ask the creators of the assets for permission to use them. Otherwise, make your own. I never stated to 'take/steal' the original work.

Didn't mean to imply that you did.
I just meant that the creators of most/all the assets have been either silent or unwilling to let theirs be used for other purposes outside of FH.
So that gets iffy depending on if reverse engineered FH is still FH, etc etc.
Hence the aforementioned "toe-stepping."

They've all been asked before about this stuff, from the many attempted "FH Reboot" projects. Silence is usually the answer, so there's not much we can do with that.

I've already been overhauling a majority of the game, and I've had thoughts about piecing it together as something else entirely. I'm stuck on whether or not I want to do that, mostly because of the character models. I want to use them, but I'm painfully aware they aren't mine, along with some other misc models that I enjoy.

They could just be redone, but then at that point, haven't I just created my own "game" anyway?

It's all very strange.

I'm sure just a repiecing of what is here is what most people want, just basically the same game but with more fancy codes for more fancy fun options.
And that's achievable.
I've attempted contact directly to Kov a few times to see if he'd be willing to allow collaboration or adoption of the FeralHeart project by someone else, but I've never gotten a response.
I've been hesitant to make any real progress on anything without his go-ahead.

It's a very grey area, but it's one I've wanted to tackle for a long time. I'm just unsure if I'd be supported or attacked for trying, since it seems to go both ways every time someone starts a pet project involving FeralHeart.

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, or something that people (or even I, for that matter) won't want.
It's definitely something that everyone (mostly) can agree on and want.
But I've had work used without my knowledge/consent before. And it doesn't feel good, even if I wasn't necessarily present in the community anymore.
Doesn't mean your claims on your work are dropped.
The idea is that something was made for you to enjoy, and it was made that way specifically.
Even if they can acknowledge that there's always going to be something better, it doesn't mean that's not painful to admit and behold constantly.

Again, grey area.
Again(x2), still desirable.

[Kalaban]

You will always have people that will support or deny the possibility of making a new game/etc.

It's just like the difficulty of making a group on FeralHeart these days. You need to be EXTREMELY lucky = The best and most trusted base of people, the willing-to-be-there active people, sturdy plot lines and even stronger social structure (that would be the models and game design in this instance), and the time to do these things.

So, final note, it would be extremely difficult and you would always be toe-stepping without the permission of the original creator; Kovu. But- it is possible.


If you were to clean-cut the game and revamp it, I would suggest calling it a new game entirely and giving all the respects to the original amount of creation. Which, would include links to all of their public social accounts and things to contact them. Praising them for what they did.

Ruby- If you were to use the original models, I would suggest on using it as a temporary fix while you privately test out the features of the "revamped." new game.


That's my opinion on this matter.

[Ruby1234]

You will always have people that will support or deny the possibility of making a new game/etc.

It's just like the difficulty of making a group on FeralHeart these days. You need to be EXTREMELY lucky = The best and most trusted base of people, the willing-to-be-there active people, sturdy plot lines and even stronger social structure (that would be the models and game design in this instance), and the time to do these things.

So, final note, it would be extremely difficult and you would always be toe-stepping without the permission of the original creator; Kovu. But- it is possible.


If you were to clean-cut the game and revamp it, I would suggest calling it a new game entirely and giving all the respects to the original amount of creation. Which, would include links to all of their public social accounts and things to contact them. Praising them for what they did.

Ruby- If you were to use the original models, I would suggest on using it as a temporary fix while you privately test out the features of the "revamped." new game.


That's my opinion on this matter.

I've already redone almost all of the flora, including a lot of ground textures.
I've run some test renders n whatnot, built hand-sculpted terrains, the like.

I've been using the originals as placeholders for a while now.

I'm at a halted progress stage because I'm not sure whether to focus on trying to implement everything into FH as a mod, or deciding to take everything and run to a new game entirely.

But I digress from the original point of the thread a bit.

The reverse engineering is 100% a thing. A lot of progress has already been made. There's methods to cracking open the game and getting at all kinds of original files, mostly for maps of course.
New features can be achieved, but would they become this FH, or have to become their own thing?
Largely depends on what the staff team is willing to do.
The update was received pretty poorly by a lot of the community, so I'm not sure where they're at with supporting something like this.
I've given as much as I could so far.

[Crusoe]

As I mentioned, ask the creators of the assets for permission to use them. Otherwise, make your own. I never stated to 'take/steal' the original work.

Didn't mean to imply that you did.
I just meant that the creators of most/all the assets have been either silent or unwilling to let theirs be used for other purposes outside of FH.
So that gets iffy depending on if reverse engineered FH is still FH, etc etc.
Hence the aforementioned "toe-stepping."

They've all been asked before about this stuff, from the many attempted "FH Reboot" projects. Silence is usually the answer, so there's not much we can do with that.

I've already been overhauling a majority of the game, and I've had thoughts about piecing it together as something else entirely. I'm stuck on whether or not I want to do that, mostly because of the character models. I want to use them, but I'm painfully aware they aren't mine, along with some other misc models that I enjoy.

They could just be redone, but then at that point, haven't I just created my own "game" anyway?

And if they are unwilling to let their assets be used outside of FH, we can make our own. If they are redone, how does that not make it its own game? Do we consider FHD or FH+ their own games even thought they have their own assets?

[Ruby1234]

And if they are unwilling to let their assets be used outside of FH, we can make our own. If they are redone, how does that not make it its own game? Do we consider FHD or FH+ their own games even thought they have their own assets?

Agreed, and it depends who you ask.
Are IT servers really all their own games?
FHD and FH+ are also different, one is strictly graphics, the other did map changes to base game, etc etc.

Regardless, it's something that can be done, but I'm still waiting to see what a staff member thinks, since I already have to go through them for minor edits to the main game anyway.

Hopefully we'll get a clear yes or no then.

[Wyldercat]

I've been stalkin' this topic quite a bit, and I am very interested in seein' where this goes.

[Crusoe]

Haven't had any staff members add their input in yet. Kind of worrying me. :/

[Ruby1234]

It's probably something that's going to be difficult to address and agree on, so I guess it might just take time to formulate a response.
Hopefully we'll hear something soon.