Author Topic: Some things that really need to be discussed....even if it's not my place.  (Read 18844 times)

Offline Dangeryena

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Re: Some things that really need to be discussed....even if it's not my place.
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2016, 12:21:06 pm »
As ArcticGalaxy said, we do report people. Many members report people. However, the issue I am referring to specifically is something that needs to be addressed as it happens. It doesn't matter if you report someone; by the time a staff member would be available, it would have been said & done, unfortunately. I'm mainly talking about someone just being able to simmer issues down as they happen. This issue is the most toxic one, not silly trolls & spammers.

I don't bother with trolls, however it's different when people are being completely serious in Local. Also, as Arctic touched on, we're really just reminding people of the rules, which is about the most any member can do in such a situation. I really wouldn't call that entitled authority; that is mini-modding, which is acting like you are a mod & threatening to get others in trouble. However, people get defensive, & many times those simply trying to remind others of the rules get absolutely ganged up on.

We aren't simply "bickering & complaining" while doing nothing more. Not only do we report people frequently, but we are giving suggestions to possibly help the community. My point still stands due to the specific issue I'm speaking of that we could do with even one or two extra staff members. Obviously, there will always still be problems, but it would be nice.

Edit: Also, to add, having more staff would mean being able to delegate reports more easily, issues could be dealt with sooner, & things would be less likely to be overlooked.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 12:29:32 pm by NazoXSparx »
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Offline TheExperience

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Re: Some things that really need to be discussed....even if it's not my place.
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2016, 12:43:49 pm »
As ArcticGalaxy said, we do report people. Many members report people. However, the issue I am referring to specifically is something that needs to be addressed as it happens. It doesn't matter if you report someone; by the time a staff member would be available, it would have been said & done, unfortunately. I'm mainly talking about someone just being able to simmer issues down as they happen. This issue is the most toxic one, not silly trolls & spammers.

I don't bother with trolls, however, it's different when people are being completely serious in Local. Also, as Arctic touched on, we're really just reminding people of the rules, which is about the most any member can do in such a situation. I really wouldn't call that entitled authority; that is mini-modding, which is acting like you are a mod & threatening to get others in trouble. However, people get defensive, & many times those simply trying to remind others of the rules get absolutely ganged up on.

We aren't simply "bickering & complaining" while doing nothing more. Not only do we report people frequently, but we are giving suggestions to possibly help the community. My point still stands due to the specific issue I'm speaking of that we could do with even one or two extra staff members. Obviously, there will always still be problems, but it would be nice.

Edit: Also, to add, having more staff would mean being able to delegate reports more easily, issues could be dealt with sooner, & things would be less likely to be overlooked.



I have acknowledged what you and Arctic Galaxy are saying, but it seems I must iterate it again. I understand that everyone does their bit when they can, but patience is a virtue.

People want one or two extra staff members, fair enough, I'll add to that, for it is needed, though not absolutely necessary at the moment. What would need to be considered is delegating staff for the specific time-zones when the usual ones do not come on. However, staff don't leave room for "simmering" down situations, one either conform or one doesn't, there shouldn't be a grey area, and by simmering, I feel that means staff need to spoon feed people into conforming to the rules and refraining from causing a fuss, which shouldn't be necessary in the first place. If this place caters for the age group it does, one shouldn't have to calm a situation down with a staff member, if the staff member gets involved, shush or suffer the consequences.

Or has the authority not been taken so seriously that we may need a counselor to settle our disputes as well? Forgive me if that came out as conniving, but I'm actually being serious in believing that calming or simmering a situation down requires a "delicate" and "understanding" hand. Of course, don't take the statement to heart, its just how I may see it, someone else may see it differently after all. I cannot deny that perhaps a proper mediator may be better than a banhammer.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 12:47:06 pm by TheExperience »


Offline Dangeryena

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Re: Some things that really need to be discussed....even if it's not my place.
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2016, 01:03:44 pm »
I am saying that I don't think patience is solving the issue, which is why I am proposing a different solution.

And I completely agree, the main thing would be having staff members able to be on at varied times of the day.

Rules shouldn't even be necessary, but they are, because people are immature, regardless of how old they may be. I really don't think having staff readily available in-game is "spoon-feeding". They already do this, but I would like for them to collectively be on more & for longer. It's simply more helpful for them to be able to be called to resolve issues directly & immediately instead of going through the slow process of taking a screenshot, sending a report via PM, & then waiting for the problem to be resolved. Either way, they are essentially doing the same thing, but one process takes vastly longer than the other. I don't see being able to immediately solve an issue as "spoon-feeding" while having to resolve it later is something different. Correct me if I'm not understanding you, though.

They also already resolve disputes when they come up. It's not that they aren't taken seriously, but they aren't always around, that is the issue. It's a part of their job to be a mediator, as being one is an important part of keeping the game a friendly place. A ban is not usually necessary, but them just being there to be mediator & authority figure helps.

Edit: Perhaps a further suggestion is to take a page out of IT servers' book & have moderators specifically for the forum & others whose focus is in-game instead of requiring forum activity.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 01:10:29 pm by NazoXSparx »
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Offline Kynvuu

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Re: Some things that really need to be discussed....even if it's not my place.
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2016, 04:04:24 pm »
First off, let me just start this off by mentioning that I've had the pleasure of meeting & befriending a handful of staff throughout the four years that I've been here, and I can tell you that every single one of them had and has the game's best intentions in mind. Those who are appointed to a staffing position aren't there for no reason at all; they're there because they've shown an interest in maintaining the game and are qualified to do so. I understand that some people have their qualms with this whole staffing issues and whatnot, and all that I can say is, yes, it's not perfect, but yes, it does work for a small game like so.

I understand that some of you out there think that you know who would make a good staffer. You see people around the community who help out and care for this game, and yes, you believe they would be a good staff member. You feel as if the system where a current staffer appoints a new staffer has the potential to be biased and power heavy. I can completely understand that. But let me point out that in a way, the community does have a say in who becomes a staff member. For example, MOTS, the praises board, the Floof-O-Meter. These are generally all ways in which the community can show their appreciation towards a member of the community. Am I saying that a mod should be appointed based on these alone? No. But what I am saying is that this isn't a complete hierarchy. There is a hint of democracy where we, as responsible community members, can voice our opinions about potential staffers and lead the current staffers in the right direction.

I do agree that more staff members would work in this game's favor. Not because the game necessarily needs more (I think what we have is sufficient as per staff to user ratio), but because two heads are always better than one. The more people on the staff team, the more ideas, opinions, and beliefs that are likely to be circulating around. Not only will this solve the issue of staff activity (Which I don't see any immediate problem with, by the way), but it will increase the chances of progress for this game.

We need ideas. Nothing in this world lasts for long without new ideas. Why do you think Apple keeps coming out with a new iPhone each year? Or why do you think Sony has to keep making PlayStations? All for the same reasons. We as humans are inclined to get board without change. So when the net loss of interest starts to override the net gain of interest, then it's time to change something. And that's what happened. The staff recognized the potential decrease and interest and released a wonderful new update for us all. It took a long time for the community to get used to, but it's working. The fact that there are people desperate to register means that there is a surge of new players who are now interested. Show a person a polished diamond, and they'll take it. Show them a raw diamond, and they're call it a rock.

We need a revolution of ideas, not so much better staff or better players.

We also need to shift our minds away from this whole staff obsession complexion. I understand it's natural to want power. There are some members out there who are and will always be fighting for power, recognition, and popularity with little to no actual care for the game. But this whole community has let it get to their heads. We need to stop craving power and become more genuine. We need to see the staff as people just like you and I. They are no greater than the rest of us just because they have the power to moderate. Revering them like gods and goddesses is a kind of ridiculous manner to go about things. If you want to be popular so bad, then work towards it in other means. I know plenty of people who became "popular" in this game by simply being talkative or friendly, or by running a successful group, etc. But really, popularity here is fabricated. There is no real gain besides perhaps a simple feel good. And if it is a feel good that you are seeking, why not cause that emotion through other means besides popularity, such as through a good role-play, making new friends, etc.

As far as the immaturity that is occurring in game: speak up. There is nothing wrong with telling someone to stop something that you think might be against the rules. When the staff aren't around to stop it, then you need to be a productive and responsible community member and work to stop it. And if they don't listen to you and continue, then so what? At least you tried, and at which point you can escalate the issue to a staffer. I think it was pointed out in a post above that escalating it to a staff member doesn't always seem to work. But how do you know that? How do you know that it gets overlooked? Just because you don't see action taken against the problem causer doesn't mean that your concern wasn't taken into consideration. The staff might have deemed the issue not a serious enough offense for action, or they are in the process of confronting the agitator in order to solve the issue.

I'd also like to point out that this game is meant for children. Although most of the users here seem to be in their teens or early 20s, this is in fact a game intended for a younger audience. The privacy policy even entails that it is a 13+ game. So if you are aware that this game has a younger audience, then be prepared for immaturity. Younger people don't always know better, but it doesn't give us older players a reason to get all frustrated and angry. Patience is of a virtue, and it can really come in handy when dealing with agitators, especially those who do not have the same sense of maturity that you possess.

I'd like to conclude with a simple statement: We are a community. We do things together, and we are responsible for where we want this game to go. In the end, it's up to us to decide the future for this game. We can decide if we want to strive as a community. To strive to be entrepreneurs, to be inventors, to be problem solvers, to be do-gooders. We can also decide if we want to strive to be immature, to be complainers, to be arguers, to be fighters. The choice is entirely up to us. The more we come to terms with this, the sooner we can put our heads together in order to do the ultimate good for this game. I hope I was coherent to all reading my argument here. Thank you for listening.

« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 04:08:45 pm by Kynvuu »
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Offline Dangeryena

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Re: Some things that really need to be discussed....even if it's not my place.
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2016, 04:28:07 pm »
First off...


Your post confuses me. We know the staff want the best & work hard, & no one said any specific criteria for which to choose staff, just that there are people who would be qualified. Yes, many things go into considering someone as staff for anything. We need more ideas yes, but there is not much you can do with FH without the source. I'm not so much the one discussing the registration being closed, though it has been a considerably long time.

Who has a "staff obsession complexion"? Who in this thread is seeing the staff as gods? We see the staff as people; Hooli knows several of them. I am simply acknowledging that by definition, staff have authority over other users, meaning people will actually listen to them, even if they do not listen to other users' requests. Who wants to be popular in this thread? Who is power-hungry? Who said the system of staff picking more staff is biased & power-heavy? I don't have a problem with it.

Also, did you read our previous posts? We have already discussed that we report users as well as tell them if they are doing something against the rules. And I am assuming Arctic is speaking of not getting a response, or perhaps seeing someone running around still doing whatever rule-breaking they were doing before. Regardless of what the staff decide to do, the one giving the report needs some sort of feedback to know whether the issue has been dealt with, or if the staff don't see the issue as against the rules, or what.

The people I'm talking about in terms of toxic behavior are around 15-18 years old. I'm not frustrated with children being children. But yes, immaturity is expected. It's expected in literally any video game community. That's why I said rules unfortunately must exist & why it's a good idea to have quite a few in-game moderators. Patience doesn't do anything when people are hurting other people's feelings & everyone is arguing. Having in-game moderators who are around during the busy hours of the day, however, does.

I can't tell if you're talking to us directly or just in general, because you're bringing up a lot of things we didn't mention at all, or things we already said we do. Sorry if I come off as rude, I don't mean to, I'm just a little confused as to why you mentioned a lot of things you did.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 04:38:57 pm by NazoXSparx »
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Offline Nak3dAng3l

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Re: Some things that really need to be discussed....even if it's not my place.
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2016, 04:49:28 pm »
thanks for the nazo. sometimes people come in here rushing in and not fully understanding the conversation; blurting and complaining about things that have not really been touched on or not at all. i do not want to come off completely rude, but it gets on my nerve when something is shut down simply for one misunderstanding.

the misunderstandings; in game and out, have gone way too far.

i suggest that the staff implement "mini-mods." people with a smaller amount of power but the ability to kick and warn players. it would be easier to have a larger amount of them; and if the staff worries about "power-hungry" people then they wouldn't be able to get too much. if one of them is a troll, it'd be easy to remove the status of power, and eventually a genuine and active team of mini mods would be readily available to make the situation come down quiet.

i'm willing to converse if my opinion has anything wrong with it that i haven't discussed enough. i tend to be straight and to the point, and so i miss details often.

Offline TheExperience

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Re: Some things that really need to be discussed....even if it's not my place.
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2016, 05:11:34 pm »
I feel as though this thread is going in a circle and that a bit of animosity is breaking loose...

However, I think BoxTox is on to something. I have seen the Forum Moderators, and "Mini-Mods," though the Mini-Mods here are on the forum itself and run the child boards for their respective groups and nothing more. Perhaps this can be transferred in-game as well, without the whole running of specific groups thing to entail. But also, staff don't necessarily have to have the power to ban or kick people off the bat, they can be perfectly capable of enforcing authority without those additions as well. Think of them more as.... ambassadors? Perhaps you can enforce muting as a soft ban, so if someone is saying inappropriate or rude things about something or someone, an "ambassador" could have that ability. The duration can be anywhere from an hour to forever.



Offline Kuri

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Re: Some things that really need to be discussed....even if it's not my place.
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2016, 05:46:37 pm »
What's all this reporting talk about?  i never report anyone.
The Japanese concept of wabisabi:
The closest concept in english would be 'rustic'
They might have an old thing, one example is a favourite bowl or dish, it's broken, pieces are missing, why fix it?  With gold and pieces from other dishes?
"Because it was my favourite & I like it"

Offline Dangeryena

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Re: Some things that really need to be discussed....even if it's not my place.
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2016, 06:05:06 pm »
What's all this reporting talk about?  i never report anyone.

If you're referring to what I said, I was mainly speaking for myself, Hooli, & Arctic.

As for "mini-mods" (the name would likely need to be something else due to the original usage being negative/to avoid confusion), I'm not sure. I have no idea how the staff go about picking & training other staff. I'd think choosing someone they know is highly responsible & trustworthy is enough to make them a regular moderator. I also say this since I don't think there is a power to simply mute someone, so for them to have any sort of moderating abilities it'd just be kicking, & that alone only seems so useful. Maybe it'd be enough to get a point across in tame situations.

I'm curious to know how the staff feel about this subject & if they would consider switching something up in regards to choosing staff, & if so what they would do. It's not that I feel FH is burning to the ground, but perhaps something to consider to make things run more smoothly.
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Offline nureongi

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Re: Some things that really need to be discussed....even if it's not my place.
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2016, 06:24:13 pm »
,
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 02:36:16 am by nureongi »